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Rosenberg Academy is live!

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  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,665
    jkaz wrote:
    Improvising, to me, is hearing a melody in your head and playing it at the speed of thought.
    That echoes something Stephane Wrembel once said in a workshop at Django in June. He described improv as making up new melodies based on an existing one. He even suggested that you sing your new melodies and try to play what you sing.

    As far as modal thinking goes, he said he couldn't wait to finish Berklee and be done with all that modal crap. My favorite comment was, if you think about singing your improvs, you wouldn't think "Gee, today I think I'll sing in Mixolydian." You'd just do it.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • HemertHemert Prodigy
    Posts: 264
    Practicing licks without context is indeed not very usefull. It is important to see them in the harmonic context they fit.

    Stochelo has studied licks, phrases and solos exclusively during his teens. He told me that improvising evolved naturally after his brains started to connect different licks from different songs. Following Stochelo's advice this is what I did myself for five years and indeed improvisation came naturally to me as well, that's how I know it works.

    When I play with Stochelo we are exchanging licks constantly. It's fun and I always try to incorporate them in the first few solos I have to play.

    Finding your own voice happens when you start connecting licks in interesting ways and combine all other influences you have been exposed to. The RA "method" (if you can call it that) is simply the way Stochelo (and Mozes, Paulus, Jimmy, Kaatchie and many other gypsies) learnt to play himself.
  • steven_eiresteven_eire Wicklow✭✭✭✭ Dupont MD50
    Posts: 172
    For me learning licks has definitely improved my ability to improvise. In his book Gonazlo stresses the importance of moving licks around and playing them in different keys. This imo is really crucial, so say you have a 2-5-1 lick, if you can play it in whatever key you need to, It's no longer just a memorized physical motion but you really hear the sound of the notes against the chords.

    This helps to open your ears up. Denis Changs DVDs really helped me in that regard. Now whenever I learn a Django chorus I try and use the licks from it in other progressions and keys. I know that's not truly improvising but I think it sets you on the path because once you have really mastered a lick you know how it should sound over the chords and as you play it you are playing the lick by ear. So when you then try and improvise by ear you have a better idea of how it will sound. This for me, is far more constructive than say, practising arpeggios up and down, which does very little to improve your ear for how notes sound against chords.

    Something Jimmy Bruno does is getting his students to practice hearing how each degree of the scale sounds against the chord. A simple idea but another way to improve your ears.
    renzok
  • HemertHemert Prodigy
    Posts: 264
    We are currently shooting lessons with Stochelo in which he demonstrates improvising using the many licks people have learned from the lessons at RA so far. It will be an eye opener for those who don't see the value in learning licks. Here's a way to sounding real good real fast. (That sounds like an info-mercial I know, but it's true and WAIT...there's more :))

    The videos will be up in the second week of March!
  • ElliotElliot Madison, WisconsinNew
    Posts: 551
    For me learning licks has definitely improved my ability to improvise. In his book Gonazlo stresses the importance of moving licks around and playing them in different keys. This imo is really crucial, so say you have a 2-5-1 lick, if you can play it in whatever key you need to, It's no longer just a memorized physical motion but you really hear the sound of the notes against the chords.

    Very true, I have the Gonzalo books on order. There's nothing wrong with licks: we're not setting up an either/or proposition here, just a plea for a broader context.
    This for me, is far more constructive than say, practising arpeggios up and down, which does very little to improve your ear for how notes sound against chords.

    Well, once you get them down, you don't need to practice anymore. Givone's first book (among others that do the same thing) provides exercises that connect them with the scales used in GJ, so now you conceivably have every lick short of bebop, that is, once you can memorize them and get how they go together. Mike Horowitz is probably the best authority on how much Gypsy players have under their fingers, but it looks like these guys learn 7th scales like we learned decimals - in 5th grade!
    Something Jimmy Bruno does is getting his students to practice hearing how each degree of the scale sounds against the chord. A simple idea but another way to improve your ears.

    There's nothing that can replace ear training.

    You know, one of my goals is to be lick-free as much as possible - once I learn as many as I can. After playing the Blues for long enough I know there are just certain phrases that are almost inevitable e.g. in turnarounds, but this seems more necessary in a tension-release structure and when it comes to GJ you just want to glide freely and effortlessly. I'm totally captured by the story in the appendix of Unaccompanied Django which describes him in the studio on playback as "sincerely staggered by the phrases he had found almost without suspecting..." Sometimes he didn't know where he was going to go at the time (or end up with), but isn't this is what GJ, all Jazz is all about, cooking it up fresh in the moment like an omelet right at your table? That there is creativity.

    Maybe having a bunch of guys taking turns on the same chorus in a circle throws the emphasis on a lick approach more, that and a standard recognized repertoire? I have no idea.
  • GJFANGJFAN New
    Posts: 20
    I joined the Rosenberg Academy mid Feb. So far I am really pleased with the site. New material has been added since I joined including a course on improv. and another song, some advice on gear, and some rhythm parts to well known tunes. The forum is up and running well. The site seems to be very receptive to ideas from the students. One student asked for slowed down mp3's of the video tunes on the site for playing along and within a couple of days they were up. Another student asked about some rhythm intro chords to a tune and up they went. One thing I find that helps is in the notation/tab of the video performances of the songs all the picking is written in. I have Michaels excellent book Gypsy Picking and it's great to have some solos with the picking written in to supplement the book. This is the third online course I have tried (Jimmy Bruno's and Robin Nolan's being the other two). I thought both were good value for the money. The Rosenberg course though is the one that has improved my playing the most. I will resubscribe when my 3 months is up as long as they keep adding new material monthly. The price for 3 months ($85 US) is about what I would pay for two 1 hour lessons if I could find a teacher who knew the style. I feel it's good value as I have bought a couple of Denis 's DVD's for about $50 US each (great DVD's by the way) and books always seem to run in the $50 range.
  • DjuriDjuri New
    Posts: 31
    Does anybody has a songlist, if you join for 3 days, what do you get?
  • GJFANGJFAN New
    Posts: 20
    Tunes so far are Gypsy Groovin (I think it's a original kinds bluesy Gypsy tune ) Minor Swing which you can watch on the home page and Les Yeux Noirs (Dark Eyes) which you can see on You Tube to give you an idea. I think Daphne is the next one coming. There is also a Rhythm course, a technique course and a video on gear. The improvisation course started this month, there is a fake book chord chart for about 20 songs which seems to be growing rapidly and the forum is going quite strong it seems. All of the tunes are completely notated in notes and tab and all the music has the pick directions written in. The videos show both hands and after the performance of the songs it is broken down slowly a few measures at a time. It may not be for everyone but it sure is working good for me. I will keep subscribing as long as new stuff goes up each month.
  • smilinjacksmilinjack The Wilds of Borneo & The Vineyards of BordeauxNew
    edited May 2011 Posts: 80
    Haven't checked in here for awhile and was glad to see I was missed.
    By the way "Chaiman Chink" I'm 56.
    I think there is a psychological term known as "Projection", that applies to You.
    Quick to call people Nazis and such when they disagree with You.
    Apropos to that; I notice that the Rosenberg site offers transcriptions!
    I would never purchase it as I thought both of You guys were strict proponents of ear training exclusively???
    What will this do to Your sales?
    Start wearing a dress; It suits You better!

    With Kind Regards,
    Adolph :mrgreen:
    "You Can Walk Around this Town Without Brains. . . But You Can't Walk Around Without Money!"
  • redbluesredblues ✭✭
    Posts: 456
    Oh look, this again. popcorn time

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