Simplifying changes

spatzo

Gentlemen I do not understand where is the simplification in your "new chords".

When you say that you want to simplify something you must indicate first the sequence you want to change.

For me the basic changes changes for "After You've Gone" are :

|  C          |  C           |  Cm       |  Cm       |

|  G          |  G           |  E7        |  E7         |

|  A7        |  A7        |  D7        |  D7        |

|  G          |  G           |  Dm7     |  G7        |

|| C          |  C           |  Cm       |  Cm       |

|  G          |  G           |  E7        |  E7         |

|  Am       |  E7         |  Am       |  F7        |   

|  G          |  B7          |  Em7     |  A7        |

|  G          |  G           |  Am7     |  D7        |

|  G          |  G           |  G         |  G7         |

They are really simple and, for me, Am instead of C isn't more simple that's only a different harmonization that can go to D7 and then to Bm and E7. Result less interesting than C => Cm => G

By simplification I intend rather the following : you take a progression such as the first 8 bars of I Got Rhythm :

[ Bb  G7   | Cm7  F7 | Dm7  Db°   |  Cm7   F7  |

and you replace the substitutions by their true basic chords (I - IV - V)

 [ Bb      |  F7  | Bb | F7  |

And you have simplified the tune..

Twang

The thing about the lick approach is you aren’t concerning yourself with voice leading, harmonic choices and other ideas that create great solos. Anything clever and musical is already in the lick. That’s why It caught my ear and I chose to learn it in the first place. Instant cool lick! Just add water.

Maybe I should defend what I just wrote. I can’t afford to have loughty ideals about improvising deep, meaningful, fabulously musical and coherant solos that are improvised on the spot and weave effortlessly through the changes acknowledging every one. Where every note is in context and careful considered by what has gone before and what is coming after. I cant spend a decade getting my timing spot on or developing a mellifluous tone. Playing like that would put me on a level with the best. I just wanna play now! Not lock myself away for years until I feel worthy. Banging out licks lets me do that and its fun. Am I saying anything worth while on the instrument? Probably not. Does the average punter at a gig care? Nope. Do I care? Not if I’m enjoying it and playing like this after decades of classical guitar repertoire is infinitely more enjoyable for me.

I can aspire to be great and one day maybe I will have all these qualities in my playing. But if I’m having as much fun as I am now I might not bother. It’s just a shame that no one will want to jam with me! 😂

Twang

By simplification I intend rather the following : you take a progression such as the first 8 bars of I Got Rhythm :

[ Bb  G7   | Cm7  F7 | Dm7  Db°   |  Cm7   F7 | 

and you replace the substitutions by their true basic chords (I - IV - V)

 [ Bb    |  F7 | Bb | F7 |

And you have simplified the tune..

Isnt that what I did?

delb0y

Hey Twang, I'm very much on the same journey as you (without the music degree!) - a lone GJ forever-beginner tucked away in the UK. I've only just found a few other folks to play with - but these connections were made post-lockdown so I haven't actually met with them in reality (only virtually).

More and more I'm thinking my future lies with rhythm playing - I'm really enjoying this, not just GJ but early swing, too - yet I'm also taking baby steps with soloing and I relate to all you're saying.

I actually used After You're Gone for one of my early plug-and-play attempts at a composed jazz solo. I used a couple of licks relentlessly. When it came to the second half I realised I'd never in my life come up with anything better than the melody, so I simply stuck to that. At the risk of embarrassing myself here's what I did:

https://youtu.be/VzbWJXzZ05g

Regards

Derek

Twang

Sounds great! Nice looking arch top

spatzo

Well no you didn't because instead of simplifying that is to say to evidentiate the 3 main tonal center (I, IV, V) you go to choose derivated chords such as VI, II7 and so on so ...

Russell Letson

I realize that Twang is concerned with playing leads over changes, so this comes at managing changes from a different angle. What one does as a rhythm player depends a lot on context--tempo, size and nature of the ensemble, details of the tune's harmony. I remember my surprise when the teacher/leader of a beginner's slow-jam session simplified the bridge of "Honeysuckle Rose" down to four chords from the complicated, ten-chord walkup structure I'd been taught by my very sophisticated partner. I realized that, as nice as the voice-leading and bass-note walk of my arrangement was, the simplified version retained the bones of the tune.

Similarly, on a fast-tempo rhythm-changes tune, vi can be dropped, leaving the I-ii-V shell. And if there's a bass in the mix, the root is going to be covered there. (I've often played in duo contexts where I did have to think a bit about voicings that acknowledge the root.) The more instruments in the mix, the less ground a rhythm player has to worry about covering, leaving the pulse at the center.

I don't do leads, but I've sat through a bunch of workshops and sessions for them as do, and the most constent advice I hear is "pay attention to the melody." This has always made more sense to me than all the theory-based talk about which scale or mode to use over which chord. It even affects my sense of how to back a lead player--I know where the tune is going and support that melodic/harmonic shape. The kinds of things one can do in the context of a particular melody are suggested by the stylistic environment (there are "gypsy jazz" flavored gestures and stylistic patterns), but the melody and its harmonic structure remain the armature of any improvisation.

Bones

Hey Spatz, I think the OP was asking about how to navigate this part.

|  Am       |  E7       |  Am       | Cm       |   

|  G          |  B7          |  Em7     |  A7        |

If you find that simple at fast tempos more power to you but most of us novices would have a very hard time "hitting" all those changes as they fly by for one measure. So one possibility is to just ignore the E7 in the first line and just play Am ideas for 3 measures. That is what is meant by simplifying (to answer your question).

Buco

@billyshakes yes I think that was his basic premise. Have a bag of licks for major, minor, dom, dim...know them around the fretboard and practice connecting them then make rhytmic variations etc... Fairly recently I heard him say that what he still does is transcribing licks he likes and practice to get them in his own playing. I also saw him demonstrate playing over rhythm changes by using only the I chord over the whole section, then just the II chord etc... sounded great.

Bones

The other thing to point out over the troublesome section is that the melody stays very much in the original key with just some approach notes for color.