DjangoBooks.com
Welcome to our Community!
Categories
- 17.9K All Categories
- 394 General
- 255 Welcome
- 10 Archtop Eddy's Corner
- 74 CD, DVD, and Concert Reviews
- 29 FAQ
- 9 Gypsy Jazz Italia
- 17 Photos
- 24 Gypsy Picking
- 3 Unaccompanied Django
- 1 Pearl Django Play-Along Vol.1
- 1 Gypsy Fire
- 21 Gypsy Rhythm
- 551 Gypsy Jazz University - Get Educated
- 104 Gypsy Jazz 101
- 175 Repertoire
- 128 History
- 88 Technique
- 39 Licks and Patterns
- Daniel Givone Manouche Guitare Method Users Group
- 17 Eddie Lang Club
- 996 Gypsy Jazz Gear
- 645 Guitars, Strings, Picks, Amps, Pickups and Other Accessories
- 315 Classifieds
- 36 Recording
- 38 Other Instruments
- 17 Violin
- 3 Mandolin
- 6 Accordion
- 3 Bass
- 9 Woodwinds
- 197 Gypsy Jazz Events
- 78 North America
- 81 Europe
- 38 International
In this Discussion
Who's Online 0
Today's Birthdays
Comments
I guess what I mean is I don't consciously think ok the grille says Gm so where is the 1, b3, 5 when I am located on or around the middle of the fingerboard I just know that a certain shape works (and I anticipate where the song form is headed). When I see Gm I just play that shape in a certain location I don't think Gm/Bb. When I see Ab7 in the key of Gm I don't consciously think of D7b9b5 but one could. It just is more about reflex than thought. Or if I am playing a turn around in D I don't think I, VI, II, V... I just know where the shapes are relative to each other. There isn't time to think about what each shape is called. And really, not sure that there is any reason to except academically. Nothing wrong with understanding the theory but when you are actually playing there's no time to wonder about it.
Another example using the Ab7 and the D7. When you think of them in terms of shapes you see which notes are common and which are 'outside' but in the end they are kind of really just the same....functionally. I.e. the 3rd's and 7th's are the same just inverted and those are (some of) the tones that lead you back to the tonic so.....if you wanted to play something hip during an improvisation in some random key, all you have to do is play a dominant (over the V chord) but play it up a half step from the tonic. You don't have to think of the name of the chord just the "number" (i.e. 'position' relative to the tonic), and flavor (i.e shape). It would be way to slow if you were in the key of B and wanted to play a tritone sub for the V chord (F#7) ok that's C and then think ok what is the 3rd, 5th and b7 of the C chord ok that's E, G and Bb. Of course, no one does that (I had to even think for a bit to name the notes). You just play a shape and a location relative to the tonic or whatever reference you please. It's the same for comping on guitar. You don't think in terms of names or letters (at least I don't) I think in terms of shapes and position relative to the tonic.
Plus it makes it way easier to transpose keys especially if you are comping for a singer. What if the singer wanted to do Lady Be Good in E? You won't have time to sit there and rewrite the grille from G to E. But if you think in terms of relative position and shape (flavor) you can transpose right away. You could comp chords on the whole song and only know what the 'name' of the tonic chord is (E). All the rest are just shapes and position relative to the tonic and the fact is even if you learn a song from a grille with the name of the chord written you probably don't think of the name of the chord when you play it. It's just reflex.
I hope that helps.
Maybe a better way to understand it is by a different example. Say you are a soloist and you know (or see on a grille) the chord is D7. You just know the position on the fingerboard where your dominant 'shape' fits a D chord and you don't think of the 'names' of the rest of the notes in your lick. You just play them. Unless I take a 'beat' and think about it I can't even tell you what the names of the rest of the notes are. Ok there I thought about it and of course they are called F#, A and C but who cares. But I can play many D7 ideas with all those notes and then some. The measure is gone and you've already played them by reflex without ever once thinking about playing a C note against a D chord or any other name of the note. You just do it by reflex/muscle memory without caring about names or letters.
Think of comping in the same way. It's actually very liberating and easier. And an added bonus is you will be able to transpose into any key. If you play with singers or horns you WILL need to transpose and if you learn your grilles based on scale degree (i.e. I, II, III, IV, etc) and shape (flavor/function) you can transpose very quickly. What would you do if you are playing a gig with a 'pickup' band and the reed player calls Exactly Like You and holds up three fingers and then counts off the tune? That means the tonic key has 3 flats and the rest is just scale degrees. Simple, you don't even need to know much theory (true because my first gigs were with horn players and I only knew chords and very little/no theory), it's in Eb and you know the grille is I, II, V and a turn around, etc. You don't think about your grille for Exactly Like You in G or whatever. You just know the first 2 chords are the I and the II and on and on. No hay problema. Conversely, if you don't think of it that way you won't be able to transpose especially 'on the fly' (at least I couldn't). I really don't know any other way to think about it.
So anyway, back to the OP, I honestly couldn't really follow it since I don't think in terms of names/letters. Buco, I think if you think of it in terms of scale degree and function/shape/flavor of chord you will probably answer your own questions. And in the end just pick what you like the sound of. Naturally you don't want to clash with what your soloist or other accompanists are doing and if they insist on something you kind of just have to go along with it or at least try to not get in the way.
Wow, that was way more verbose than it probably needed to be.
I understand what you are saying on transposing and on the chords. It is good to know all the notes of the chords but just as important to know the intervals and the position of the b3, 5, root, etc in the chords (in the shape of the chord). If I play that D7 and know where the 5 is, I can play a D7b5 by just moving that note down by one fret without stopping to think that the note is actually an A moving down to G# (or is it Ab....)
Our band plays a tune in C when it is usually played in D because it is easier for our clarinetist to not get into funky registers and key movements (for 1 note of the melody). As you said, I didn't write out the grille or stop to think what all the chords were...I just shifted everything down either 2 frets on the guitar or looked at the existing grille and shifted the chord name down a whole step to sight read it. After you play it once or twice, you just have it.
I think what you are trying to emphasize is the importance of HEARING what you are playing rather than over-analyzing...and as is often said, these gypsy kids grow up just watching, listening, then going back to their beds and trying to figure out or play what they heard using shapes or arpeggios they thought they saw. I guarantee they weren't thinking "oh, that's a mixolydian b13 b5 arpeggio to a diminished 7...."
@Buco 's School of Rock!
...and thus, the potential next Segovia was lured to the dark side (Pentatonic) of the guitar, forever condemned to require tablature for everything he saw on youtube and never learning to ear-train or read music.....
I think you said it better and more concisely than I did. I'm probably not very good at explaining it since I just don't really think of it in terms of words. It just doesn't sink in for me verbally. My own limitations.
And your point is well taken except that Django plays Fm chord (I'm 99% positive)" under clarinet melody in the '43 version.
Depends on how fluent you are and how good you are at listening.