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Gonzalo and Wrembel's pompe

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Comments

  • Charles MeadowsCharles Meadows WV✭✭✭ ALD Original, Dupont MD50
    Posts: 432
    That's an interesting observation that this may have been influenced by imitating the way a certain album sounded.
  • guitaruaguitarua New Holo
    Posts: 24
    Yeah, first i've heard of that, but it is intriguing! Maybe other's will chime in? I know Gonzalo has said in videos that he plays along with, or used to play along with, Bireli's band (recording). That would tie into this theory.
  • Hugh HuffakerHugh Huffaker Denver Dupont MD60
    Posts: 48
    @Mitch, I hear what you are saying, but I think that a lot of younger players really like the sound of the muted 2nd and 4th beats. It gives it a driving march feel. It's not the correct gypsy la pompe, but nonetheless it sounds great to me. You get these slight teases of barely audible chords and then when you actually let a chord ring out or use an ornament, it really pulls you into the song. I like how the bass stands out as well when this style is played.

    I think it's important to learn the correct method of la pompe before venturing out into non-traditional methods. Your base has to be built on the fundamentals. However, after building the base, what really matters is what sounds good to your ears. I would argue that this is based on all of the musical influences you have had over your entire life. Modern music is very percussive and I think that it's showing in modern gypsy jazz.

    Let's not forget Coltrane's performance at the Village Vanguard as being described as "a horrifying demonstration of what appears to be a growing anti-jazz trend" or Monk's Round About Midnight described as "“for the super hip alone. Why they list the personnel on a side where the whole band plays like a vibratoless organ under the piano solo is a mystery”.

    I'm not comparing this method of la pompe to Coltrane or Monk, I just like to think about these quotes when I'm faced with new styles of music that I may not enjoy at first. As a young GJ player, I enjoy listening to the modern, overcompressed, broken foot style. Cheers!
    altonguitarua
  • jerojero Michiana✭✭✭✭ J.P. Favino, Godefroy Maruejouls
    Posts: 63
    I like Gonzalo's rhythm -- it perfectly suits his compositions. I like Stephane's rhythm -- it perfectly suits his music. I like Mathieu Chatelain's rhythm -- it perfectly matches his musical partners. I like Nous'che Rosenberg's rhythm -- he is perfectly in synch with Stochelo. I like Joseph Reinhardt's rhythm -- he backed Django beautifully.

    I think part of being a good rhythm player is knowing when a particular rhythm style or chord voicing is more suitable than another.

    What's exciting is that gypsy jazz, as a genre, is growing and maturing. "La pompe" will always be at its heart -- that it's being interpreted in new and dynamic ways in no means diminishes it.
    guitaruaalton
  • Posts: 4,799
    Maybe the biggest problem is the use of the term; muted.
    I never liked the use of the term personally.
    But I love, love Gonzalo's, Adrien's and Adrian's way of playing rhythm guitar.
    And you've heard plenty of times this use of the term muted being criticized and people saying how the chord should never be muted but you never hear anybody criticizing the way that the guys I mentioned above play rhythm guitar.
    But they're always tied with this so-called muted 2 + 4 rhythm guitar style.
    So which is it?
    Is it the respect for these guys or it's simply the fact that the sound they produce is awesome?
    To me it's the latter, I enjoy listening to them very much.
    The fact is that the way these guys play their two and four is never muted and should not be called muted.
    It's dampened. Even compressed maybe the right word regardless of its origins.
    I would actually go as far as inviting Adrian when he has time and is willing to do so to record the video where he truly completely mutes the beats two and four and compares them with the way he plays the rhythm, whether it's the way he used to do when it was more dampened or the way he says he's doing it now where the chords are more sounded.
    Either way I bet you that you're talking two different worlds if you completely mute the cord and if you just dampen the chord.
    Of course the problem becomes when the term muted is being perpetrated and people who aren't really listening carefully are taking the term for granted and are playing the rhythm guitar while completely muting the beats 2 and 4.
    jonpowlMattHenryPassacaglia
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • Charles MeadowsCharles Meadows WV✭✭✭ ALD Original, Dupont MD50
    Posts: 432
    Yeah Gonzalo and the Adriens have a great sound. I just find it interesting that maybe some of the influence for this was the way a Bireli record was made! But I don't know if that's really the case or not.

  • Tonight at our rehearsal I used the short 1/3 dry 2/4 and on some fast tunes a full quarter 1/3 and a scratchy thwack 2/4 and Django/Joseph rhythm from shine, and Django's shuffle that he plays at times on the All Stars record as well as a few 30's swing banjo tricks.

    It's all good. Let the song lead the way.
    Bucoalton
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • cjlcjl
    Posts: 45

    Would a bit of compression on a recorded track really change the rhythm guitar sound that much? .... I doubt it.

    Looking at the DC vids on YT, you can see that Gonzalo, Adrien, Hono and Dennis all sound different from each other .... but they're all 'correct'!

    Personally I like that dry sound, even when it's played quietly it still seems to cut through - but I also like the other variations in the rhythm playing, from the 30's to the present day. As others have said, if it suits the song and it swings, then it works ....
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,799
    In that Brunard video also note how he's positioning his right hand in relation to the sound hole depending on what sound he's after. He's over, behind, even towards the neck half of the sound hole. It's the guitar timbre which he's masterfully using that's affecting that great tone as well.

    Another mistake people, including me, commonly make is to get stuck to the area just behind the sound hole, because it's the most common tone area in GJ.
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • I have been playing around with the timing of the upstroke a lot lately. Playing it as a pronounced upstroke on the triplet eighth immediately before the down beat gives a really strong swing drive.

    Playing it as a light upstroke more like a grace note but with the timing taken from the previous beat, kinda like a 1/16 or 1/32 push on the beat gives a completely different feel. Mixing the two in a rhythmic pattern can yield some neat drive.
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
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