For those who struggle with following changes !

Jazzaferri

Are you using a metronome in your practice

Lango-Django

'm aware of the harmony change and "feel it" but sometimes I have to stop and ask my self "what's this chord now?" and sometimes even run through the chords quickly to get to the chord in question.

Yup, sounds all too familiar! But hopefully this is just a matter of time and practice.

I've been playing the guitar for so many years that when it comes to hearing and playing the right CHORDS, it's almost as if my ears and my fingers somehow just do it without my conscious effort or knowledge.

And yet when it comes to hearing and playing the right ARPS, wow! Suddenly it becomes a challenge, especially that @#$%! cycle of fifths... I know there's some kind of V7 coming, but which one? B7? maybe E7?

Aaaargh!

Buco

I'm looking for a more efficient way to get better in following changes and I'm gonna try this experiment.
I'll compare three ways, three different methods to practice soloing over a tune:
1 use a band in a box and follow chords as they flash on the screen
2 use a band in a box just as an accompaniment but music sheet to follow the changes
3 play without any accompaniment and follow changes mentally

I'm gonna record 3 different songs to start with as a bench marks; after you've gone (method 1), all of me (method 2) and undecided (method 3) and practice those for a month.
At the end I'll record myself again and see if there is one song that stands out from the rest.
But also I'll just know at that point how well can I can hang in there while playing either of these tunes.

I'll use some of the ways mentioned and explained here to practice arpeggios and the rest as I go through these tunes.
Thank you everyone who contributed, I really appreciate it.

I was gonna start a different thread but this one is just as fitting given that the goal is the same.
What do you guys think about this? Do you do anything similar and what works for you?

Thanks

Buco

Lango-Django wrote:

'm aware of the harmony change and "feel it" but sometimes I have to stop and ask my self "what's this chord now?" and sometimes even run through the chords quickly to get to the chord in question.

Yup, sounds all too familiar! But hopefully this is just a matter of time and practice.

I've been playing the guitar for so many years that when it comes to hearing and playing the right CHORDS, it's almost as if my ears and my fingers somehow just do it without my conscious effort or knowledge.

And yet when it comes to hearing and playing the right ARPS, wow! Suddenly it becomes a challenge, especially that @#$%! cycle of fifths... I know there's some kind of V7 coming, but which one? B7? maybe E7?

Aaaargh!

Exactly!!

Lango-Django

Buco, that's a good idea for an experiment, but I wonder to keep it impartial, why not use the same song(s) for all three methods?

Personally, right now I'm far from home, in Malaga, Spain, so I"m reduced to practising on my old 'tar (subject of a previous posting w/photos, this is a cut-down electric guitar that disassembles to fit in my suitcase) without accompaniment of any kind.

So making a virtue of necessity, I do find I'm actually improving at finding those arps I need... though admittedly my time may be slightly less than metronomic!

For the amusement of my travelmates, and to make sure I don't drive them totally crazy, I've also been adjusting my usual practising and making a game of picking out melodies of old jazz tunes by ear... the game is that they have to try to be the first one to "Name That Tune". I'm finding this to be good ear training,too.


Will

Jazzaferri

It's a hard life you lead Will.

Direct some sunshine our way if you have a moment.

anthon_74

FYI - I am trying to memorize the songs, as opposed to continue having to look at the charts, or have other such help keeping me on track in terms of the changes.

This is why I've been primarily working on 'all of me', so my fingers will begin to always know where to go, without any chart. What I suspect/hope will happen is something similar to what happened long ago with me and rock and roll. Since I memorized so many rock songs, I began to get a feel for the changes before they happen, regardless of whether or not I know the song.

I believe that if I can memorize about 5 or 6 gypsy jazz standards chord's in every fretboard position, then my fingers will start to just know how to seek out the right place from one chord to the next, and I won't even have to know what chords are being played necessarily to maintain melodic integrity ...

I'm happy to say that after almost 2 weeks of focusing primarily on all of me, I ALMOST have the the changes memorized in every position. It's interesting, because even though I can play the chords in my sleep, with no charts, my fingers still get confused as to what chord I'm on, MORE in certain fretboard positions than in others. In some fret positions, I don't even need to think of what chord comes up, and my fingers just automatically go there... in others, even when I do think of the chord coming before it gets there, I still have trouble getting to the right spot.

So many levels of memorizing things !

Anthony

Buco

Lango-Django wrote:

Buco, that's a good idea for an experiment, but I wonder to keep it impartial, why not use the same song(s) for all three methods?
Will

Well then I may do better on a certain song but I won't which of the methods helped me get there?
Or am I missing something?

I pretty sure there won't be major surprises in the end but I'm interested in what happens regardless.
Who knows, maybe combining all three is the ticket. What I'd be thrilled to find out is that after doing this it would become less of a struggle for me to keep a mental place in a song without any helping wheel.
At least I should get a month of focused practice out of it and hopefully start forming a habit of more focused practice sessions in the future.
I recorded all three tunes to use them as a sort of "control" group and tomorrow I'll start working on them.

Wow Malaga, Spain, you poor thing.

Anthon you sound pretty methodical in your practicing, that's pretty impressive. I'm having a hard time sticking with a single task for long, usually I wonder off. While I'm playing over a certain tune I may play a line that reminds me of another tune and I'm gone away. But only with things I struggle with, if it's something I'm comfortable with I can do it 'till the daylight.

Tough road indeed.

anthon_74

Hey Buco,

Believe me, it's taking every ounce of my self discipline to focus on All of me, and the main reason I'm doing it is because I recognize how much it's helping me, and I need to get alot better before Django in June. Also, I was feeling uninspired by my soloing, and I realized the reason was because I was often feeling lost in the changes, which stems from not knowing the arps of a specific song like the back of my hand.

Until the past few weeks, I always practiced about 5 or 6 songs at a time. The thing is, I'm not even really doing much improvising at the moment... just practicing memorizing the arp positions, and speeding them up. what I'm noticing though, is that when I finally do improvise every few days, I have a lot of new ideas, and it's much more fun because I'm rarely lost now.

Cheers
Anthony

Lango-Django

OK, here's me--- mechanically, I can use the correct RH techniques and now, with my Givone-educated LH, usually stay on or near the chords.

So now the "only" problem remaining is to make it sound like real gypsy jazz, instead of some guy practising arps!

I've noticed when I listen to really good players, they have little peaks of excitement in their playing... some kind of fast lick that runs up to a triumphant high note... a cry of triumph!

I don't know what the real musical term for this is, but I call them 'micro-orgasms'...

So now I'm trying to deliberately practice achieving my own micro-orgasms.

So far just on tonic chords. I haven't done any kind of extensive musical analysis, but it just seems to me that real GJ players usually achieve their micro-orgasms over tonic chords, whether major or minor...?

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong...?