New Selmer branded guitars incoming..?

Russell Letson · April 25

ChrisMartin--Note that the first word in my paragraph about Selmer consistency is "if." In fact, I suspect that a sufficiently large and chronologically varied sample would demonstrate pretty much the range of variations most of us have noticed in a similar sample of Martin D-18s or Gibson J-45s. I know that I have encountered Goodalls that I would not buy, nice as they are. And for a long time through the 1970s, I could walk into a jam circle and tell that there was a Guild dread somewhere in it. Not one that I would necessarily have traded my faithful '65 D-40 for, but a cousin.

About laminated subassemblies: A friend who builds very fine guitars has moved to "double"--that is, two-ply laminated--sides, sometimes of different woods. The acoustic benefit, he says, comes from increased side rigidity that makes for a better attachment surface for the back and top. He also uses hot hide glue for what he calls "the acoustically active joints such as bracing, plate joining, and bridges." His instruments are very good, and if I weren't in possession of too many guitars and not enough years left to play them, I'd have one. (And I know which particular one, because even his guitars aren't clones of each other.)

About measuring/comparing guitars' voices (or the benefits of exotic audio components): the ear is not a reliable instrument, partly because so much of hearing is nervous-system signal processing and perceptual filtering. And then, as Chris pointed out above, much of what we do hear is from the way the player manages the instrument. (I've seen attempts to use mechanical devices to remove that set of variables, but the data produced that way is not music--it's just plucking.)

Buco · April 25

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/121112#Comment_121112

Yes, of course. Everything I wrote refers to the blind tests using ones ears.

@ChrisMartin generally I agree but I'll also say player's voice and guitar voice are two different things. There's a YT playlist I created just to drive that point across. It's Stochelo playing Rosenberg Academy lessons. Over the years he used different guitars. The playing always sounds like Stochelo but the guitars sound different as well.

MichaelHorowitz · April 25

@Russell Letson I suspect that a sufficiently large and chronologically varied sample would demonstrate pretty much the range of variations most of us have noticed in a similar sample of Martin D-18s or Gibson J-45s.

Yes, Selmers vary greatly in tone, projection, and construction. I’ve got around 8 vintage Selmers here right now and have played over twenty of them over the years. Generally the earlier, pre war builds are the lightest, with a less pronounced top arch, and a shallower neck angle resulting in a darker, but less powerfull tone. After the war, the neck angle and top arch became more pronounced and the tops became thicker culminating in the much more robust builds in the early 50s. While there has always been an obsession with Django’s 503, which was one of the “flatter” pre war builds, many of the top Gypsy players I’ve spoken with agree that the other Selmer Django owned (#704, used on the Rome sessions before having the top crushed) was the best sounding guitar Django ever played. I tend to agree, judging from both the Rome session recordings as well as the Selmers from 1947 (600-early 700) I’ve had here have consistently been so much better than anything else. They’re the very loudest Selmers but also incredibly rich sounding with a midrange response like no other.

Perfect example is Fapy’s personal Selmer that he used throughout most of his career which is from this period:

https://www.djangobooks.com/Item/selmer-651

Russell Letson · April 26

Michael--Thanks for confirming specifically the ways that Selmers vary across time and construction details. It echoes what I've observed about the output of just about every builder or factory I've been able to observe--and I've been able to play around on the inventory of a prominent vintage dealer/restoration artist as well as the instruments of two friends who build. It's really instructive to compare, say, Gibson archtops and Martin 0s or 00s from different periods or to hear what instruments from legendary builders (Stromberg, D'Angelico, D'Aquisto) actually sound like when they're sitting in your lap. (It's also sobering to consider that I prefer the sound of my Eastman 805 to that of several five-figure vintage instruments I've played. Though there's a 1929 L-5 and a '32 L-10 I would actually pay market price for if I were going to live another 30 years. Those two, however, are not for sale.)

MichaelHorowitz · April 26

@Russell Letson Yes, every vintage guitar seems to have those few “good years” that are reliably outstanding. For Gibson acoustic L-5s, I’ve discovered it’s pretty much the same year as the best Selmers: 1947

I guess there was just some post war exuberance going on and/or the last gasp of decades of acoustic jazz guitar building soon to be replaced by electrics.

paulmcevoy75 · April 26

@MichaelHorowitz just wondering, does every single Selmer have the Pliage?

I've only played one L-5, but it was an early one, and it was absolutely amazing. I got to spend a couple hours playing this guitar, it was really impressive. Setup wise, it felt "old", a little wonky, but absolutely did sound heavenly.

https://www.fretboardjournal.com/columns/a-closer-look-matt-munisteris-master-model-l-5/