Jimmy Bruno's first guitar lesson

billyshakes · December 2024

and "fun" meaning gigs at bars or music specific venues vs. soul-sucking gigs that tend to pay a lot more, like weddings

I will say that the majority of the gigs we have played in bars or restaurants have been to seldom appreciating audiences. Every once in a while, someone might come up during a break and talk about Django or their appreciation of our music. And I do like it when the swing dancers come out and dance to our music. But the drag is the owner who will only pay $75 per band member. He'll pay $300 for a 4-piece but not $300 for a 3-piece, so it isn't budget, just some sort of "principle." And many times no one even recognizes when we finish playing the song. They just keep talking or staring at their phone or whatever.

I contrast that with the one wedding we played where the dance floor was packed and we even received a boisterous standing ovation after we were finished. Probably my favorite gig this year by far. When a couple is paying much more for us to be there because they like what we do, it seems more appreciative than the club/bar owner who is calculating if the extra $200 he is paying the band will bring more than that in drinks/trade.

So yeah, haven't played any corporate gigs but on my limited experience I'd much rather play a wedding than a bar gig. Can you share why you find them soul-sucking and what negative experiences you've had that make them so for you?

Scoredog · December 2024

I can "maybe" give some insight into Jimmy's mindset but obviously I don't know the whole story. I met jimmy in Vegas 1980-81 or so. Jimmy had grabbed top showroom gigs which meant he was an excellent reader besides being an advanced player at about 25-26 years of age. I had just come from LA where as a person a bit younger I had been unsuccessful at staying in LA (I'd return later and do well) and had a gig in Vegas which would give me time to work on my playing and get back to LA (took me 7 yrs to get better and accumulate enough money to survive not working). I came into Vegas as the kid knowing the most about the current LA sound than most if not everyone in Vegas at that point. Carlton, Ford, Ritenour ruled the day with Lukather soon to take over. Jimmy could play circles around me and anyone in Vegas but he needed to learn the stuff I kind of had down which was greasy with a nice overdrive. He said "Craig, show me that Carlton Shit". I heard him try to play that stuff and it wasn't quite right so I knew LA was going to be tough (Vegas was a retro town back then, the sound of the 50's and 60's was what was needed if you were going to get top showroom pay), but he had done all he could do in Vegas and set off for LA. From what I heard from my LA friends he was a mixed bag, great player, reader but my guess the lack of grease or being a natural rock player probably set him back. He in jazz could play circles around a lot players but producers had a certain sound in mind and you really only get a crack or two at them and if you screw up you get a reputation. Even if you hang around 10 yrs (if you can) and fix the issues that rep may still follow you. Also Jimmy probably didn't love the session work, as Herb Ellis once said 99% boredom and 1% terror. Jimmy had enough of the LA scene and went back to Philly. A couple of years later I'm listening to the radio and there is Jimmy and I'm going wow, so that's what happened to him, he decided to follow his jazz voice. Of course having your own voice in Jazz is a mixed bag, you play what you want but making a living has its pitfalls. I have not talked to jimmy since he moved back to Philly which has to be around 40 yrs ago.

voutoreenie · December 2024

So yeah, haven't played any corporate gigs but on my limited experience I'd much rather play a wedding than a bar gig. Can you share why you find them soul-sucking and what negative experiences you've had that make them so for you?

Hey, I never said all wedding gigs are bad and again, fact is they usually pay really well. As for bad experiences, where to start??

Having the bride cry because she didn't like our arrangement of "her tune" that we played for her earlier and had already been approved - drunk Dad then physically threatened us and withheld pay until we got a lawyer involved.
On that note, arranging all of the crappy songs that are special requests for one-off gigs
Being promised food for the musicians only to have it be a single Dominos medium pizza for 4 of us while playing a super swanky lakeside venue for 4-5 hours - we watched the caterers throwing away all the extra food at the end. Also, one time we were promised food...and each band member got a literal brown bag lunch with one peanut butter sandwich and a banana lmao - at least that gig was only 3 hours, iirc
Playing a wedding with no food but the option to have food provided if the costs were deducted from pay - yeah, that actually happened and needless to say, crunch wrap supremes hit extra hard after the gig lol
Do I need to mention all the drunks yelling lame shit like "play Freebird!" and thinking they're the funniest people they've ever met?
Venues with no stage, a single outlet, complete caverns that sound terrible, etc. - never fun trying to adapt to spaces that clearly weren't designed for music
On that note, speaking of public spaces, playing weddings public park lodges that are barely heated in the winter...not sure about you, but my technique suffers when the hands are cold, not to mention just being generally uncomfortable from the cold
And probably my least favorite aspect, having to follow an exact script in terms of song timing, entrance/exit and all that piddly crap that I'm sure makes the bride feel special but I could give a f about after playing so many of them

Shall I continue?? lol

Anyway, feel free call me a curmudgeon for not liking vast majority wedding gigs but it is what it is...of course, ymmv. And regarding bar gigs, yeah, I've played many shitty bars too but give me the relaxed atmosphere plus free drinks (and usually food too) any day over the theatrics of "formal" gigs like most weddings.

And as for soulless corporate gigs, they can be an absolute boon to musicians in terms of pay (usually $400+ in my experience) but all I'll say is I'm never playing them again, especially convention center gigs (and in particular medical conventions at McCormick Place...ugh)...musicians going through the grind and who need the $$$s more than I do can take all those gigs and run with them. In fact, if I ever get offered them I always try to find a sub who needs the coin because tbh, I feel bad about getting paid that much for any gig when I know other musicians would be far more appreciative for the opportunity. Hell, I'll even play free gigs all day if food/drinks are included so long as they're casual no pressure - I'll sometimes even go without pay to support the other musicians who need it more than me because at this point, I'm playing all for fun. And believe me, after years upon years of struggling financially, I acknowledge how privileged I am now to even be in a position to select gigs based primarily upon personal preferences.

Hopefully that's sufficient...way off thread topic now so if you wanna talk more about it, feel free to dm me.

Russell Letson · December 2024

The arts--or even arts-adjacent work--is no way to make a living, at least for most people. I've hung around writers for more than a half-century, and worked as one (freelance journalism mostly) since the 1980s, and word-rates (the equivalent of gig pay) have lagged far behind inflation. And, as with the music biz, opportunities have shrunk dramatically--only three of the dozen or so commercial magazines I used to write for are still publishing, and two of them maintain the equivalent of GoFundMe operations to stay afloat.

As for the music scene, our mid-size city--with a university--used to have a pretty busy bar scene, served by rock and country bands, as well as restaurants that might hire acoustic players on weekends. (That's where I learned to play in public.) Them days is gone, and we now have one highly competent and very active rock band that specializes in tribute concerts and a lot of other very competent players who fit their musical activities (often more tribute work) around their day jobs. There are still people who enjoy music, but the audiences for both the folk and chamber music societies (which have been going for 35 and 40 years respectively) are gray-haired. As are significant fractions of the crowds filling the seats for the rock tribute concerts. I don't know what the students are doing for music, but it doesn't seem to be live performance.

lux · December 2024

Also sorry for the thread drift, but since there’s only about 12 of us active here, I figured it’d be okay. 🙂

Scoredog · December 2024

Ditto voutoreenie above...but not off topic because it relates to surviving as a musician which everyone including Jimmy had (has) to do. To survive in LA if you were not a first call Weddings and Corporate were a must (Can you imagine Jimmy liking those?). Bar gigs way more fun but could not survive on those.

voutoreenie · December 2024

Of course having your own voice in Jazz is a mixed bag, you play what you want but making a living has its pitfalls.

This really sums up so much of it, even for living legends like Jimmy Bruno.

CraigHensley · December 2024

I encourage the thread drift. Musicians need these discussion opportunities so we can band together and share our experiences. Pursuing the arts in a world where art is not valued is a daunting task. We all need community to discuss the difficulties of our shared journey, to realize we are not alone in our struggles, and to rejoice in the accomplishments as they arise.

Back to Jimmy, I just watched him answer questions on YouTube. I didn't realize he quit guitar completely for 2 years after he moved back to Philly from LA. He worked as a bartender and really enjoyed the experience before slowly getting back into guitar and committing himself to playing only jazz.

voutoreenie · December 2024

@billyshakes Just wanted to quickly apologize if my response came off as aggressive or angry at all - please know I actually appreciate it and honestly, it was great to go back and revisit all those memories...because all the bad is so funny to me now and there's also so many good moments/great memories too. In so many of those weddings and crappy bar gigs, me and the upright player I worked a ton with back in the day used to carpool in his old 80s Toyota small size truck that only had AM radio...we would listen to either Art Bell reruns or this weird 60s/70s easy listening channel that was one of the only music stations we could reliably get reception haha. Lots of after gig taco bell too...ahh to have the iron stomach of a 20-early 30s yo again lol.

And wow, speaking of music, even tho the pay is generally tough living, almost all of my great life experiences are through playing music or working in music...I've been blessed to meet Pat Metheny, Eric Johnson & Al Di Meola...the latter of which was at a clinic and due to the fact I was the only one available to drive back to his hotel to get all the CDs and merch he forgot, I got to sit with him for a bit in our "back stage" greenroom so to speak; Al's just the nicest dude in the world...didn't get a pic because back in 2005 smart phones weren't so ubiquitous but I do still have the CD he gave to me for free w/his autograph of course. Also got to meet Johnny Highland & Will Ray at a clinic...they even came to a gig of mine afterwards to get some food and watch the swing group! Can't even tell you how many amazing drummers and percussionists I've met due to the music store I used to work at...but probably the best memory I have is playing with Ignacio Berroa as part of his backing band for a clinic he put on - that dude is seriously insane and even tho we only had 1 rehearsal with him, I learned soooooo much it's impossible to even quantify. Best part is we immediately had a decent mental connection/chemistry going and he made it known he wanted us to initiate things for him musically based upon his talking points...at one point, I could tell he wanted a standard so I started playing Night In Tunisia...meanwhile, he started with a traditional swing beat but switched every 2 bars into a different rhythm/beat...everything from straight rock, to disco/funk and then his truly amazing Clave/Cuban rhythm - playing with a drummer/percussionist of his stature is literally a transcendental experience.

Anyway, I'm saying all this too so any young cats reading on here might want to put themselves through the grind; again, might never be the most lucrative career but man, you can really get some good memories out of it too (while also learning exactly how to become jaded and cynical about it when you get older lmao).

Happy Early New Year to all!