I have a Nylon Shopis D hole and I can do things on it I can't do on any other guitar, also records great. At one time I was going to sell it but it has really grown on me.
Just - OK, even with my limited experience, a true fan of the man and his work - surprised not to see him figured among the "Top 10" in the video.
Christiaan's content on his channel is really great and he's a good person so what follows is in no way directed to him personally. That said, as a general rule, I often think of "Top 10" lists like this as a data point but not the be-all, end-all. Many content creators will intentionally leave out a well-loved candidate for the list to generate comments and interaction on the post. The more interaction, the more page views, the more monetization, etc. I'm not saying that is what CVH is doing here, just explaining how I would feel if my favorite wasn't represented.
As has been said, this is an incredibly personal decision and hearing even the specific instrument you are hoping to acquire is just as important. If we take an alternative perspective, you will have seen that there are several strong candidates that have been listed for "best", which means you have an embarrassment of riches to chose from! Quite different from 20 years ago. That is due to the health of this community that there are still people playing, still opportunities for good builders to find buyers for their craftsmanship, etc. And that is a GOOD thing!
I think they focused intentionally on the lesser known brands, because there is nothing left to say about the big names like Dupont or Hahl. It should not be seen as a Top 10 list anyways imo. It is more of an information about „other“ luthier.
I enjoy guitar gossip as much as the next guy, but when it comes to actually acquiring one, it's more like buying shoes or gloves or Scotch than, say, a cellphone or some other item with qualities that are amenable to quantification. There is no objective measure of what "sounds great" might mean, beyond, perhaps, a statistical outline of who says it about what instrument. For example, for many conventional swing players a Gibson L-5 is the archtop, but I much prefer the Epiphones I've played. And so it goes.
Even a given builder's output is not going to be uniformly satisfying for a given player. After hearing a lot of live playing, I gravitated toward Michael Dunn's instruments, and I found one that I really love--but I chose it over other Dunns that did not have quite the voice I was looking for. That has been the case with just about every guitar I own--decades ago I bought a Guild dreadnaught rather than a Gibson or Martin, but since then I've played Guilds I didn't like and Martins I'd happily own. Go figure.
It's unfortunate that one can't try out the range of high-end GJ instruments the way one can flat-tops or even archtops (in a big enough city), because choosing a guitar is such a subjective, multi-dimensional matter.
It's also worth considering that Parisian guitars built before 1990 or so were being built for professional big-city guitarists who might have to use them for many styles of music and not necessarily for "gypsy jazz" which barely existed in those days. Every 80s Favino I ever played had that vibe, so do good DiMauros Nowadays nearly all Selmer style guitars are specifically designed to play the modern style of gypsy jazz. Not all - some, like the Mazaud Vieux Paris appear to be designed as an all-purpose guitar. The last couple of Bumgarners I played had some of that, too. Knowing exactly what you want the guitar do will help in making a decision. And of course, in gypsy jazz as in all styles of guitar, many of the best players sound is the same on any guitar. It was much easier when I bought my guitars - there was only Favino and Dupont. To cover the bet I bought one of each...
I think calling out "who is the best" isn't a wise idea. It might mislead people, and since everyone is different, everyone likes different qualities from guitars.
I think it would be awesome if someone would come up with a "Rating System" for gypsy guitars. If the rating system was done correctly, it could cater to different people who look for different things. Think that would be even possible? A system that could measure guitar quality on individual guitar basis rather than at the luthier level.
pmgAtherton, CANewDupont MD50R, Shelley Park Custom, Super 400, 68 Les Paul Deluxe, Stevie Ray Strat
edited June 2020Posts: 140
As a proud (foolish???) owner of over 20 guitars including a couple of well-played GJ guitars, I heartily recommended owning more than one. When I was just starting out in this genre, I did not like the fat necks and higher action that I found on many GJ guitars, so I looked at various luthiers and settled on Shelley Park who built a fabulous custom GJ guitar for me that played like my electrics and sounded great. As I got more into the style, I gravitated towards the slightly drier sound of the Duponts and bought an MD50R from Michael which I really like for its more traditional sound and also because this particular "R" model has a more modern, slightly narrower neck on it. I go between both guitars and am currently looking to add a third one - but still undecided.
Its too bad we're locked down in this COVID era since I would recommend that you go to events that attract a lot of guitar players like Django in June or Dangofest NW where you can get up close and personal with a lot of players and hear and possibly play a lot of different guitars. Like a lot things, it comes down to what feels and sounds good to you - but also OK to be influenced by what guitars your GJ heros are playing and possibly get one of those if you can afford it. A trip to visit Michael Horowitz in Seattle - or **** in S Cal (or both!) to play their guitars and get their advice might be worth considering.
Finally, while I tend to not sell guitars, I am somewhat influenced by owning guitars from better known builders as they are more likely to hold value and be easier to sell. But if I found that really magical guitar, I'd buy it if even from an obscure builder.
I'm always interested in jamming with experienced jazz and gypsy jazz players in the San Francisco - San Jose area. Drop me a line. Bass players welcome!
juandererNewALD Original, Manouche Latcho Drom Djangology Koa, Caro y Topete AR 740 O
Posts: 205
Depending on budget and preference; any particular guitar will be top for any particular player.
Never owned one, but I've always been impressed by the incredible tone and aray of sounds of the guitars of Olivier Marin, esepecially in the hands of Adrien Moignard, Benoit Convert and Gonzalo Bergara!....but then again, as folk mention, these players will make any guitar sound great.☺☺☺
Best is subjective. All of what have been mentioned are well regarded. I still think you can't go wrong with a Dupont as far as consistency goes. I've played single examples of some of the well regarded builders that didn't do it for me. The key should be that you play them
Another vote for Craig's guitars. I use my Derecho for a number of different things, especially now. When I'm with cats playing this style, it certainly is noticed.
Comments
I have a Nylon Shopis D hole and I can do things on it I can't do on any other guitar, also records great. At one time I was going to sell it but it has really grown on me.
www.scoredog.tv
Just - OK, even with my limited experience, a true fan of the man and his work - surprised not to see him figured among the "Top 10" in the video.
Christiaan's content on his channel is really great and he's a good person so what follows is in no way directed to him personally. That said, as a general rule, I often think of "Top 10" lists like this as a data point but not the be-all, end-all. Many content creators will intentionally leave out a well-loved candidate for the list to generate comments and interaction on the post. The more interaction, the more page views, the more monetization, etc. I'm not saying that is what CVH is doing here, just explaining how I would feel if my favorite wasn't represented.
As has been said, this is an incredibly personal decision and hearing even the specific instrument you are hoping to acquire is just as important. If we take an alternative perspective, you will have seen that there are several strong candidates that have been listed for "best", which means you have an embarrassment of riches to chose from! Quite different from 20 years ago. That is due to the health of this community that there are still people playing, still opportunities for good builders to find buyers for their craftsmanship, etc. And that is a GOOD thing!
I think they focused intentionally on the lesser known brands, because there is nothing left to say about the big names like Dupont or Hahl. It should not be seen as a Top 10 list anyways imo. It is more of an information about „other“ luthier.
I enjoy guitar gossip as much as the next guy, but when it comes to actually acquiring one, it's more like buying shoes or gloves or Scotch than, say, a cellphone or some other item with qualities that are amenable to quantification. There is no objective measure of what "sounds great" might mean, beyond, perhaps, a statistical outline of who says it about what instrument. For example, for many conventional swing players a Gibson L-5 is the archtop, but I much prefer the Epiphones I've played. And so it goes.
Even a given builder's output is not going to be uniformly satisfying for a given player. After hearing a lot of live playing, I gravitated toward Michael Dunn's instruments, and I found one that I really love--but I chose it over other Dunns that did not have quite the voice I was looking for. That has been the case with just about every guitar I own--decades ago I bought a Guild dreadnaught rather than a Gibson or Martin, but since then I've played Guilds I didn't like and Martins I'd happily own. Go figure.
It's unfortunate that one can't try out the range of high-end GJ instruments the way one can flat-tops or even archtops (in a big enough city), because choosing a guitar is such a subjective, multi-dimensional matter.
It's also worth considering that Parisian guitars built before 1990 or so were being built for professional big-city guitarists who might have to use them for many styles of music and not necessarily for "gypsy jazz" which barely existed in those days. Every 80s Favino I ever played had that vibe, so do good DiMauros Nowadays nearly all Selmer style guitars are specifically designed to play the modern style of gypsy jazz. Not all - some, like the Mazaud Vieux Paris appear to be designed as an all-purpose guitar. The last couple of Bumgarners I played had some of that, too. Knowing exactly what you want the guitar do will help in making a decision. And of course, in gypsy jazz as in all styles of guitar, many of the best players sound is the same on any guitar. It was much easier when I bought my guitars - there was only Favino and Dupont. To cover the bet I bought one of each...
I think calling out "who is the best" isn't a wise idea. It might mislead people, and since everyone is different, everyone likes different qualities from guitars.
I think it would be awesome if someone would come up with a "Rating System" for gypsy guitars. If the rating system was done correctly, it could cater to different people who look for different things. Think that would be even possible? A system that could measure guitar quality on individual guitar basis rather than at the luthier level.
Maybe something like:
As a proud (foolish???) owner of over 20 guitars including a couple of well-played GJ guitars, I heartily recommended owning more than one. When I was just starting out in this genre, I did not like the fat necks and higher action that I found on many GJ guitars, so I looked at various luthiers and settled on Shelley Park who built a fabulous custom GJ guitar for me that played like my electrics and sounded great. As I got more into the style, I gravitated towards the slightly drier sound of the Duponts and bought an MD50R from Michael which I really like for its more traditional sound and also because this particular "R" model has a more modern, slightly narrower neck on it. I go between both guitars and am currently looking to add a third one - but still undecided.
Its too bad we're locked down in this COVID era since I would recommend that you go to events that attract a lot of guitar players like Django in June or Dangofest NW where you can get up close and personal with a lot of players and hear and possibly play a lot of different guitars. Like a lot things, it comes down to what feels and sounds good to you - but also OK to be influenced by what guitars your GJ heros are playing and possibly get one of those if you can afford it. A trip to visit Michael Horowitz in Seattle - or **** in S Cal (or both!) to play their guitars and get their advice might be worth considering.
Finally, while I tend to not sell guitars, I am somewhat influenced by owning guitars from better known builders as they are more likely to hold value and be easier to sell. But if I found that really magical guitar, I'd buy it if even from an obscure builder.
Depending on budget and preference; any particular guitar will be top for any particular player.
There you go. Everyone gets some love.
Never owned one, but I've always been impressed by the incredible tone and aray of sounds of the guitars of Olivier Marin, esepecially in the hands of Adrien Moignard, Benoit Convert and Gonzalo Bergara!....but then again, as folk mention, these players will make any guitar sound great.☺☺☺
Best is subjective. All of what have been mentioned are well regarded. I still think you can't go wrong with a Dupont as far as consistency goes. I've played single examples of some of the well regarded builders that didn't do it for me. The key should be that you play them
Another vote for Craig's guitars. I use my Derecho for a number of different things, especially now. When I'm with cats playing this style, it certainly is noticed.