Pick doesn't always rest

edev.gtr

I've just started gypsy picking. I've found that on the downstroke the pick often falls through a couple strings, such that it ends up resting on, not the string immediately below, but the next one. Naturally, I'd like to correct this.

It smells to me like good old fashioned sloppiness that will be corrected by more practice. However, I am playing on a dreadnaught with standard strings. I was wondering if the heavier string gauge is making me muscle the pick through the string more than I should?

Or is it indicitive of some other error?

JazzDawg

It's really hard to say without seeing you play, but...

These are some items that may help.

1. Practice with a metronome.
2, Start slowly. Watch your level of attack as your pick approaches the string, making sure your stroke comes to rest on the proper string.
3. Gradually increase the tempo as your picking becomes more natural
4. Go over the instructions to each exercise again - re-read them. I missed some items first time through in my rush to get started.

I do not have a gypsy style guitar, but I can gypsy pick regardless. I use a Gibson J-200 with 12-56 gauge strings and use rest strokes. I use a heavy pick, a Dunlop Big Stubby 3.0mm. It's not really the strings, but something in your picking attack. That's what I really believe. It's easy to rush through the exercises, but if you take it slow and gradually build your technique you will find it more helpful in the long run.

Take a look at some of the YouTube vids with folks playing the style, and you'll see the proper hand motion. I'll try to locate some that illustrate it, if you can't find any. Also, if there's a teacher in your area for the style, take a few lessons - even if just to get that kind of immediate feedback.

Hope that helps.

BluesBop Harry

you might also want to increase the angle in relation to the top so you're picking into the guitar, the face of your pick is more parallel to the top of your guitar.
I think that'll help since picking that way makes it almost impossible for your problem to happen.

Passacaglia

BluesBop Harry wrote:

you might also want to increase the angle in relation to the top so you're picking into the guitar, the face of your pick is more parallel to the top of your guitar.
I think that'll help since picking that way makes it almost impossible for your problem to happen.

Do you mean, tilt the pick downwards a bit, the part that strikes the strings is facing more towards the top (skyward) of the guitar?

BluesBop Harry

The face of the pick is not completely parallel to the soundboard nor perpendicular.
The angle should be enough so you don't miss the resting string but not too much so you hit the top of the guitar on the high E... although a lot of people do hit the top. Just experiment to find the right angle where you can also get sweeps.
You get a lot of volume that way and accuracy is improved as well. For sweeps you just have to push a bit on the string you're resting on.
At least that's my experience... hope it helps

Passacaglia

That's interesting, Harry - tonight's practice, I'll play with this. It's mostly when I'm being sloppy in mind that I end up spilling into a second string on a rest stroke - something borrowed from my Shakespeare training, the notion that the thought impels a breath, breath impels a sound, sound impels a word, line contains a thought - and it starts again. When the mind is "sloppy," so is the mouth...I find a parallel with this issue, when playing.

At any rate, really interesting to me, your comment, as I do tend to ding the high E from time to time. The guitar is already noted for its bass response, so I'm looking forward to playing with this notion. Thanks.

Paul

BluesBop Harry wrote:

The face of the pick is not completely parallel to the soundboard nor perpendicular.
The angle should be enough so you don't miss the resting string but not too much so you hit the top of the guitar on the high E... although a lot of people do hit the top. Just experiment to find the right angle where you can also get sweeps.
You get a lot of volume that way and accuracy is improved as well. For sweeps you just have to push a bit on the string you're resting on.
At least that's my experience... hope it helps

JazzDawg

Here are some links vids with some examples. Of course, they're not perfect but there a couple of scenes where you can see the angle of attack being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlYvbk6t ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNoEp94l ... re=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WVGosjoqEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxpZ4UvrOA

This link is pdf with an illustration, but IMHO it really doesn't show the correct angle. I find more a 45 degree seems to work for me. I think you may be using too little angle, and that's what's causing you to 'skp' the string landing.

http://www.editions-coupdepouce.com/med ... 26_int.pdf

Anyway, hope that helps. If not the vids are worth watching.

edev.gtr

Thanks all for the helpful tips. I believe my angle of attack was indeed too flat, both in the the angle the pick is tipped down toward the headstock, and in the angle with respect to the face of the guitar body. This latter angle was definitely too flat-it looks like I should be shooting for more of a space-shuttle-landing approach to the string - nose (erm, point) up. Is that right? It sure seemed to help.

JazzDawg

Ok, I thought the issue was asked before, but sometimes it's hard to find this stuff. So, take a look at this thread for some further references to the hand / pick attack.
viewtopic.php?t=6283

In that thread there is a great vid showing a clear view of how to approach it. Others are in the thread, too, I just 'picked' one example. That should clear it up for you.

http://www.serendipity-band.com/misc/ma ... e-cote.avi

Cheers, and keep in tune...

Passacaglia

JazzDawg wrote:

Ok, I thought the issue was asked before, but sometimes it's hard to find this stuff. So, take a look at this thread for some further references to the hand / pick attack.
viewtopic.php?t=6283

In that thread there is a great vid showing a clear view of how to approach it. Others are in the thread, too, I just 'picked' one example. That should clear it up for you.

http://www.serendipity-band.com/misc/ma ... e-cote.avi

Cheers, and keep in tune...

Hi Phil -

In that video, isn't he approaching it pretty flat to the string? I'm wondering if I've got the whole notion of approach wrong....taking Michael's idea of 45 deg. or so, I had thought that meant that with an arched wrist, back from the soundhole a bit, the pick naturally comes at the string at an angle - meaning, basically, more "edge" than "face" grabs the string...when I first began, I had thought this meant more of what's being discussed here, the angle relative to the soundboard, or tilt - but then looking more carefully at the book, and at some vids online, seemed to me I was wrong, and we were talking about attack angle (edge of pick, at least somewhat, not flat of pick).

But now, revisiting the Gypsy Picking book, and looking at the pictures, I think this entire time, when doing lead stuff, I've been trying for something that wasn't right...

I'll take some pics to show what I'm talking about. So hard to describe online, but hope it's clear, what I'm wondering about.

Edit: Pics. sorry for the quality, the shot angle makes things look more extreme than they are in actuality - and I exaggerated the angles anyway, for illustration purposes - but I hope it makes clear the question...

diagonal, as in edge v. face:



or diagonal, as in "tilt," so the face of the pic is more parallel to the soundboard:

JazzDawg

Paul,

Yeah, when I saw that last stroke on the high e string, I thought the same thing. But, then again, it's a matter of what works for you really. If we look at Michael's description, which I don't have handy at the moment, he also says to raise the hand/pick up higher and placed differently. So, this vid is a bit different, but I think the basic concept is there, showing that the pick angle is not perpendicular to the string, and uses more of a angle. It is hard to describe in words, eh.

When I play, I use more of the tip of the pick than just the flat, but again it depends on the passage I'm playing, sometime I may hit more flat to get more tone from a stroke, if that makes sense. My vidcam went south, so I can't post anything to illustrate it. The important thing to me, beyond worrying about 'protractor-correct' pick angle too much, is just getting the notion of using the rest stroke without using any type of flat hand, or finger anchor on the top or bridge. Some bluegrass folks tend to use more of an anchor with their fingers or rest their wrist on the bridge when playing, but that doesn't work in this style. So, if you are skipping strings with your strokes, unintentionally, then use more of an angle to approach the string until it becomes more natural, then you will get the feel of it.

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