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moveable diminished pattern

ThojoThojo San FranciscoNew
edited June 2009 in Gypsy Picking Posts: 10
I really love this pattern and I've been practicing it daily since I got the book a few months back. Somehow I'm just not progressing at it as much as I'd like. I'm having a hard time getting it to sound even and speeding up the pattern. Do you have any general advice about this lick (eg pick position, rigidity, etc)? Is there a common mistake that a lot of people make when first learning it?

Comments

  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    Posts: 6,154
    I think the best thing you can do is just practice is slowly with a metronome and make sure it's very clean and accurate. Don't even worry about the left hand, just get the right hand trained perfectly.

    good luck!

    'm
  • djangologydjangology Portland, OregonModerator
    Posts: 1,018
    Some ideas (be careful taking me for absolute truth because there could be an error):

    Dennis Chang mentions a bunch of ideas for it in his DVD #1 and DVD#3 but you should be able to figure it out on your own using the internet.

    Take a look at this site for example:
    http://johncomino.tripod.com/dimpatt.htm

    The far left pattern flows across 2-3 fingerboard positions which is very common. You should also learn diminished scales in a single position and with intervals.

    The first chart is what I play over a root on 6th string like a A7 or C7 (1st note is A and 2nd note in arp is the red note). The 2nd chart is what I use from the root on the 5th string like an C7 or Eb7 (for Eb7 play root on 6th fret 6th string then 2nd note is C# on 5th string. the red note can be a leading tone(i explain below).

    The 3rd chart is the "octatonic" version of the diminished scale. The magical thing here is that if you look at the 4th chart (on the far right bottom) you will see a diminished arpeggio pattern that you can play over a C7, Eb7, or Gm scale. You will notice that in that arpeggio pattern if you merely add a leading tone to each note (except the form in the 1st chart has an exception: a following tone on the root) be able to "deduce" the octatonic pattern in the 3rd chart.
  • FransFrans The Netherlands✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 53
    Hi Djangology,
    thanks for the link, could you help me out and spell the "octatonic" which goes over C7, Eb7 and Gmin,
    I'm not sure if I got it right, I have a hard time figuring out these patterns
    thanks and kind regards
    Frans
  • djangologydjangology Portland, OregonModerator
    Posts: 1,018
    Frans wrote:
    Hi Djangology,
    thanks for the link, could you help me out and spell the "octatonic" which goes over C7, Eb7 and Gmin,
    I'm not sure if I got it right, I have a hard time figuring out these patterns
    thanks and kind regards
    Frans

    the octatonic pattern that fits over a A7, C7 (or the Eb7 tri-tone 7th chord of A) is:

    A(ROOT on fifth fret 6th string),Bb(following tone),C(leading tone), C#, Eb(leading tone),E,F#(leading tone),G

    there are also different diminished patterns you'll have to figure out for yourself. for example, its pretty common to see someone play a basic gypsy jazz diminished arp over a 7th chord by starting on the note right after the root of the 7th chord. "but" if you are playing the octatonic version of that arp, then you start on the note before that and the first 2 notes of the diminished pattern are 1/2 step apart, just like you see in the photos on that link above.

    think about all of these things and you'll be able to figure it out for yourself.
  • FransFrans The Netherlands✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 53
    Hi Djangology,
    thanks for your reply, I'm still having a hard time "hearing" the scale and the possibillities of resolution to different chords but that will just be a matter of time, I have no problem using the dim arpeggio but the scale...
    I have also a certain feeling that Django didn't make much use of the dim scale but used mostly the arpeggio's, using the scale somehow sounds too far out for me, same with the whole-tone scale but who knows, maybe it's an acquired taste
    thanks again and kind regards
    Frans
  • djangologydjangology Portland, OregonModerator
    Posts: 1,018
    dont think of the diminished octatonic scale as a scale in itself. somtimes you should think pattern-based rather than theory-based, and as i mentioned earlier, using a diminished arpeggio with leading tones allows you to "derive" the octatonic scale.
  • CitrusCitrus DenverNew
    Posts: 8
    Thanks for that chart!
    The Lightbulb just went on!
    Enjoy Life While You Can
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