gypsy picking

dennis

a wrote:

ok...

also, is there a way to practice this technique at lower volume, with a mute or something, and still get the desired result?

practice on a hollowbody guitar.... or put a sock between the strings and the bridge... it'll kill the sound but u can still practice that way... (Fapy used to do it and i do it sometimes)

dennis

dennis wrote:

they're both "wrong", that's now how you're supposed to hold the pick in the style (at leaast the way jimmy, stochelo, angelo, bireli, django, etc...held it)....

if i remember correctly it was clearly explained in michael's book

the thumb should be in a flatter position as if you were pushing the tip of the thumb against a table... the thumb is pressing against the pick just slightly above the middle joint and NOT at the joint...

btw i remind u that i did reply to your post in the technique section i don't want an entire essay left going to waste...

MichaelHorowitz

dennis wrote:

they're both "wrong", that's now how you're supposed to hold the pick in the style (at leaast the way jimmy, stochelo, angelo, bireli, django, etc...held it)....

Hi Dennis...I'm not seeing a big problem with his grip. I don't totally understand your critique. From what I can see in the photos he has the basic idea. For me the big problem is when people press the pick down with the tip of their thumb. He's clearly not doing that. Everything else seems to be in the acceptable norm that I'm aware of. Maybe I'm missing something, please elaborate.

'm

dennis

i just saw the second pic where he was holding it exactly at the joint... the first pic looks closer to the real deal... and again, i say "wrong" in quotation marks

based strictly on guys like Bireli, Angelo, Jimmy, Stochelo, Django, etc... the thumb looks a bit double jointed as if they were sort of pushing the tip against the pick... in fact whenever they play the thumb always remains in that same position( ie no motion in the thumb joint)....

Whenever i watch guitar players i always pay attention to the form of their right hand, so far i have not seen any guitar player in the style that moves his thumb joint around except Stephane Wrembel and Raphael Fays who, based on my observations, don't always fully follow the "rules", anyway....

if you watch older videos of stochelo (early 90s) he had a different technique then, and it is very clear that the thumbtip was sort of pressing against the pick

I've seen fapy wiggle it around occasionely recently , but he didn't seem to do that previously

MichaelHorowitz

dennis wrote:

based strictly on guys like Bireli, Angelo, Jimmy, Stochelo, Django, etc... the thumb looks a bit double jointed as if they were sort of pushing the tip against the pick... in fact whenever they play the thumb always remains in that same position( ie no motion in the thumb joint)....

Yes...often the thumb does look double jointed. Sort of curling back up. Actually, I think Nous'che Rosenberg does this more then anyone. I'd have to see a pic, but I think he also grips on, or very close to the thumb joint. So there's a lot of thumb hanging over the edge of the pick.

Here's a pic:





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dennis

ya you're right ... it does look like he's holding it closer to the joint, but still not exactly at the joint... does he always hold it that way?

I guess what matters most is the "double-jointed" thing... i guess my theory is that it gives more control and focus/power on the pick...

dennis

actually now that i have a pic in my hand , that's more or less how i hold it.... in a's second picture, he's holding the pick exactly at the thumb joint which I haven't seen anyone do....


of course there are exceptions to everything ... ie Mito Loeffler who holds the pick with the thumb and middle finger!

ramsezaz

That's how Serge Krief is holding the pick ...
Between the thumb and the midle finger, putin the second finger on the side of the pick, and he's not using the gypsy picking technique anymore (using lots of upward sweeps, with his wrist nearly touching the bridge) but he still manages to have a great tone and damn..he plays loud...

MichaelHorowitz

ramsezaz wrote:

That's how Serge Krief is holding the pick ...
Between the thumb and the midle finger, putin the second finger on the side of the pick, and he's not using the gypsy picking technique anymore (using lots of upward sweeps, with his wrist nearly touching the bridge) but he still manages to have a great tone and damn..he plays loud...

I noticed that on the Bireli vid....he wasn't using the classic technique. But I think he was playing in the Gypsy picking style over 10 years ago on the Django legacy vid.

'm

ramsezaz

Yep in django legacy and other (relatively) old footage, he uses the gypsy picking. But he changed his technique quite a bit in the last 10 years, the result being that strange position (the pick between the thumb and midle finger, the low wrist like an electric guitar player and a little strange snap befor each stroke). I was quite surprised the first time I took a lesson with him...but I don't know how, he's got the loudness and the tone....(and speed, and the staccato)