Intonation, bridge placement

Joonas

I changed strings on my Altamira for the first time and because the bridge moved slightly while changing the strings I decided to check with a tuner and noticed that the best intonation point is about 2mm back from the inner edge of the moustaches. In the "perfectly aligned with the moustaches" position the notes on the 12th fret are slightly sharp. So I moved the bridge back, but this increased the fret buzz on the lower strings slightly.

I didn't hear the sharpness with my ears before but then my ears are like they are. I've read that human ears in general tolerate a sound better that is slightly lower than what is slightly sharp. Also you can't bend a note to a pitch from sharp. Should I try to shim the bridge to raise the string height?

The problem is not big, if it's even a problem at all, but I'd like to get the best result I can.

paulmcevoy75

I think a lot of gypsy guitars probably intonate better in places out of line with the moustaches, and you see that sometimes. I use the TE Tuner app (my fav) and get the open string and the 12th fret note to be as close to perfectly in tune as possible. If the 12th fret is sharp, move it towards the tailpiece, if it's flat move it towards the nut. Or the other way around...I forget sometimes.

Of note, you need to do it on the high E and low E separately, so your bridge might be a little crooked as well. Not too many gypsy bridges are intonated string to string, so you may have some weirdness in the middle strings.

I don't like the notes flat or sharp, I like them perfect, ideally.

You could shim your bridge a bit to get the height correct at the properly intonated spot, sure.

Joonas

Thanks @paulmcevoy75 ! I'll probably try shimming the bridge and see what it'll do, is it going to be better or worse, except I'll look for the right material, I don't want to use coins like Jimmy Rosenberg did in that movie.

paulmcevoy75

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/124166#Comment_124166

wood veneer if you can get some is nice. remember that to get 1mm of height on the 12th fret you need 2mm at the bridge...

billyshakes

I thought we decided that used metro tickets were the way to go?

Joonas

I said I wasn't going to use coins so I used 2mm Gator picks. The buzzing is gone but I'm not sure about the best intonation point yet, I had only a limited time to play today. I actually made nice pieces from plywood and painted them black with a marker but those were clearly too thick (thicker than the Gators, so either 2.5mm or 3mm). I could shave them down later of course, if I stay on that route.

paulmcevoy75

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/124175#Comment_124175

They are probably fine but plastic is a high damping material and I would not really want it in the middle of my signal chain.

Certainly people do all kinds of things and it sounds fine but to me that's like putting a no pass filter into your guitar, at least conceptually.

Joonas

@paulmcevoy75 Thanks for the tip. I remember that there was a kit with premade shims of wood in different sizes for sale on gypsyguitar.de but the shop just had a new webpage launched and now I don't see them there anymore...

Buco

Ice cream Popsicle stick works well, solid wood and right around 2mm which Paul mentioned will give you a 1mm bump at the 12th fret. Any place that sells wood supplies will have a solid wood veneer though, it's easy to cut them up with scissors and stack whatever you need for a needed height.

TheGarethJones

I shim with cardboard from a Veuve Clicquot box and i am just now hearing about the metro tickets, so i’m obviously going into my stash right now… @billyshakes

wim

Where did the metro ticket idea originate for Django's shim? Is there some evidence to that or was it only a rumor? Other rumors I've heard are it was a matchbox cover, or a weight card.