playing loud in jam sessions

Jangle_Jamie

Hi folks, I played in a jam session in Inverness at the weekend. Very enjoyable, and the weather was good enough to sit outside. I find myself absolutely hammering the notes out though, in an attempt to be heard when soloing. Not that the rhythm section was too loud, but perhaps sitting outside, the sound just disappeared. When playing really hard, everything in my playing suffers - good technique and the ability to play with feeling and subtlety go out the window! I even took my Dupont Busato which is loud! Is there something I can do to combat this? I was thinking perhaps just playing more gently, and everyone else would quieten down as well? Or is playing outside really hard because of this?

JSanta

Was it that you thought that you weren't playing loud enough, or was that what people were telling you?

In a jam, we always try to compensate for what what we can hear when backing a soloist. If we were playing together and you took a chorus and I noticed you weren't loudly projecting (and that's my perception), I'd come down a bit as well, since my job is to support you, not the other way around. But that takes practice, being able to connect with the players in a group. Even in my regul;ar band, it's something I am increasingly aware I need to get better at.

I'm in no position to offer any technical solutions as I've never seen you play (and honestly, I'm also not learned enough to teach this style), but communicate with the people there and you'll all start learning how each other plays and be able to support them accordingly.

Phil

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/21479/playing-loud-in-jam-sessions

I imagine you have to play louder to be heard over the bagpipes!😀🥃🙃🥃😀🥃

pdg

This is extremely common. (Even inside.) How many rhythm players played at the same time while you soloed? Did they face you directly, or at an angle? Do they know how to play "dry" and staccato-like (punctuating, leaving silence between beats, not continually sounding throughout the bars)?

How's your high-frequency hearing? (Not that that would even necessarily be a cause.)

In the old days, you'd see guitarists hold their guitars at an angle (so they could see the sound hole and fretboard). A slight tilt gives more volume to the player.

A slightly stiffer setup might be good for these situations. Maybe a thicker pick. (In the banjo world some professionals use thicker strings for live performances than for, say, recording.)

You could revisit the place, sit there by yourself, play some stuff at your normal level of force, and listen to what you hear.

Next time, you could suggest that less than five rhythm players playing at a time (i.e., 30 strings!) might make people's (mostly single string!) leads pop out better. Or even keep it to two rhythm players at a time.

It may be unavoidable, playing into the void. Apparently, many professionals will not play harder, no matter what. You could try that -- get really used to how it feels when you're playing your best, and play the same way in the outside jam, regardless of the apparent volume that you hear. It's possible (i don't know) that you might be able to focus your ears on the sound of your guitar. If not, you might accept that you just won't able to hear the subtle nuances yourself.

I do think that the mind automatically directs a player to play harder until the sound to the ear matches what it expects to hear, even if it's counter-productive. So maybe we have train ourselves to ignore that "directive."

Scoredog

1. If you have great technique and can play like Paulis volume of the jam likely won't matter.
2. If you have good technique or don't love pushing notes in a loud jam play more octaves and chordal stuff.
3. If you have mediocre technique and are in an insensitive jam you are screwed by definition.
4. If you have mediocre technique and are in a sensitive jam session you should be fine as players will come down.

If I can't hear the soloist I come down, if there are other players who are covering up the soloist I will suggest they turn down, not shy about it.

lucky

I had the same experience at a jam yesterday, I find it frustrating because my technique goes off a cliff if I play aggressively. It's a number of different factors - closed jams (i.e. not to an audience) are by their nature a bit raucous, that's all part of the fun, and I think there is a tendency to get carried away and play rhythm loud, particularly on fast tunes.

The guitars themselves are an issue - they're actually hard to hear as a player but they project really well. I've had the experience before of not being able to hear the player opposite me but if I get up and walk a few metres away, I can everything clear as a bell. Because we often can't hear ourselves, we play harder, so it's a bit of a vicious circle.

In an ideal world, everyone would play a bit quieter, but that's not realistic in this genre so my best advice is to try different positions in the circle - which is what I did last night. Sometimes it's about the acoustics, but it's often about the players immediately next to you.

pdg

Sounds extreme, but you could use an audio technica or dpa mic, attached to a little headphone amp, running to in-ear monitors.

rarely_plays

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/121929#Comment_121929

Although I will probably never do this, I really like this idea.

Jangle_Jamie

Oh, great discussion and great points made, thank you!! I reckon my Dupont throws all the sound outwards and I'm just not hearing myself. I'll try angling the guitar a little, and playing at my usual volume and see what happens.

My mediocre technique will definitely have something to do with it!! I'm getting a bit better on that front though, since Django In The Bay, where I came away with some new directions regarding right hand position and pick grip.

There was nothing wrong with the - only two! - other guitarists playing rhythm.

Last month I took my Gitane 270 which as a player sounds like my loudest guitar. Watching a couple of videos back however, taken from far back where the audience were, you can't hear me very well at all!

Thanks all for the advice.