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Singing solos is the key to improvising. Really?

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  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    edited August 2020 Posts: 1,855

     A great melody invites a particular kind of improvisation--play through a bunch of Jerome Kern compositions and watch for the surprises, which are also delights.

    Yes! Kern, Gershwin, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, Richard Rodgers, Jobim... all those wonderful changes they used...!

    That’s my favourite stuff! Like the stuff that Grappelli loved to play...

    Lately I’ve been working on mastering “Bluesette”, both the melody and improvising over the tricky key-of-the-moment changes.

    I must have played that tune a hundred times, and I still marvel at its harmonic sophistication... how did Toots Thielmann ever think up such wonderful stuff?

    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."

    Georges Braque: "In art there is only one thing that counts: the bit that can’t be explained."
  • pral16pral16 New
    Posts: 18

    I just watched this video last night and thought it spoke directly to the original question of this post. Aimee Nolte knows what she is talking about----I believe she is saying you play exactly what you hear in your head (Hal Galper makes the same case in another video). If you can't sing it (i.e. haven't internalized it already), you won't play it spontaneously when improvising.


    BucoTwang
  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    Posts: 1,855

    That video was a lot of fun to watch, thanks!

    I agree with most of what Amy says, with one small caveat...

    As guitarists, we have at least three different ways to play any given note... unlike piano or sax.

    So when we “hear” a particular phrase that we want to play in the course of a solo, it may be real easy to play in one particular position (or perhaps in a “sharp key“) but real difficult to play in another....

    Therefore some of us (well me anyway) have actually trained our ear to encourage our fingers to play things the easy way, which inevitably leads to a certain amount of lick-ish playing... which is the very kind of playing that we are trying to get free of...

    So for us guitar players, “playing what we hear” has that extra level of difficulty...

    Do I have legitimate point here? or am I just kvetching?

    You decide!

    Will

    Twang
    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."

    Georges Braque: "In art there is only one thing that counts: the bit that can’t be explained."
  • adrianadrian AmsterdamVirtuoso
    Posts: 545

    @bbwood_98 wrote:

    I'd love to see/hear some Django & other Gypsy jazz solos (Birelli anyone??) done like this?

    Back in 1997, Manhattan Transfer added vocalese lyrics to Django's 1940 Nuages solo. You can see/hear it here, in sync with the original Django solo (switch between the two using the "2 recordings" menu at bottom):

    Adrian

    rudolfochristbbwood_98BillDaCostaWilliamsBonesLango-Django
  • JojoJojo London UK
    Posts: 190

    @adrian That’s wild! I’ve never heard of that being done before ( now hoping someone considers doing this to Voodoo Chile)

  • bbwood_98bbwood_98 Brooklyn, NyProdigy Vladimir music! Les Effes. . Its the best!
    Posts: 671

    @adrian too cool - hadn't heard that before!!! so good. Thanks!!!!

  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,319


    Cool Adrian, I had never heard that. When I searched and found this I was assuming it would be some American jazz guitarist but as soon as I heard it I could tell the guitar was GJ. Found the credits, Stochelo and Stephane.

    As someone who can't sing (or even really hum in pitch) I think it would be a big advantage if I could sing and internalize melodies (I've tried to hum phrases for years when transcribing and can't do it) but I would not say that it is necessary to improvise a passable solo. I think there is a whole spectrum of tools and the more the better but some people have more of one tool than another and they pull out those tools at different times. That said, I am not a soloist but I dabble and despite not being able to carry a tune vocally I am starting to prehear more in my head during solos. My solos though are really just variations on arps. Lately I have been making myself practice only heads (well maybe I take a couple choruses of improv hehe) to force myself to play more melodically.

    The other tool I want to develop is to have more "licks" in my bag of tricks. For some reason I can't seem to memorize licks but I think I have just not dedicated the time to that. I used to do a LOT of transcribing when I had more time just for fun (too busy these days and hardly play lately) but eventually my plan is to pull out the transcriptions and rather than work on the whole solo just pull out phrases and try to memorize them so I can use them in solos. It's on the list, one of these lifetimes....

    One thing I have figured out lately is that the timing and phrasing is just as important (maybe more imp??) than the actual notes. Again, I think being able to hum would also help with that. I only recently started recording a bit and the first thing that jumped out was that while I was playing the "correct" notes (arps and very 'inside') the timing and phrasing were glaringly off. So now I ONLY practice with a metronome or playalong track to keep myself honest.

    billyshakesBillDaCostaWilliamsLango-Django
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,319

    Jojo, plus one for Voodoo Chile

    Off topic but check the picking hand position in the beginning of this vid. Lots of downstrokes too.


    Jojosteffo
  • BillDaCostaWilliamsBillDaCostaWilliams Barreiro, Portugal✭✭✭ Mateos, Altamira M01F, Huttl
    Posts: 636

    Back in 1997, Manhattan Transfer added vocalese lyrics to Django's 1940 Nuages solo. 

    and lyrics by vocalese maestro Jon Hendricks - great to discover this!

    bbwood_98
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