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Is la pompe not cool any more?

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  • Posts: 4,810
    Blue Drag wrote: »
    FWIW I read an interview with Martin Taylor in which he said that Stephane Grapelli told him that he (Stephane) always hated La Pompe- style rythm and that Django hated it too. Go figure...

    Are you kidding me?!? Even Django and Stephane didn't think it was cool.
    wim
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • NejcNejc Slovenia✭✭ Altamira M01
    edited March 2017 Posts: 98
    Buco wrote: »
    Blue Drag wrote: »
    FWIW I read an interview with Martin Taylor in which he said that Stephane Grapelli told him that he (Stephane) always hated La Pompe- style rythm and that Django hated it too. Go figure...

    Are you kidding me?!? Even Django and Stephane didn't think it was cool.

    I think they started to hate it after a couple of years performing it. If I recall correctly Django said that la pompe reminded him of a train, thats why he started to dislike it.
    Buco
  • Russell LetsonRussell Letson Prodigy
    Posts: 360
    To my ear, la pompe is what happens when a small ensemble needs to emulate the pulse of a big dance band--and the structure of the QHCF (two lead voices backed by a drumless rhythm section) requires that the rhythm players be rock-solid and together. Note what happens to the backing when Grappelli solos and Django comps: it's as though a drummer has been unleashed to provide hits and flourishes and fills.

    Now listen to what happened in American jazz when the players were freed from dance pulse and tempos: bebop, from which all subsequent mainstream American jazz descends. And when Django no longer had to play for dancers or back singers, he did what American bop players did: he explored the rhythmic space thus opened up. (Also note what happened to the role of the guitar in bebop: no more "rhythm guitar." For a year or so I've been sitting in with some bop-centric players where my swing skills, such as they are, are largely irrelevant. It's a whole different ballgame.)
    BucowimBillDaCostaWilliamsNejc
  • If you listen to Django playing rhythm (all star sessions CD) with Rex Stewart and Barney Bigard, Django used the pompe at times but lots of other rhythmic patterns as well. It is jazz after all.
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • DragonPLDragonPL Maryland✭✭ Dupont MD 50-XL (Favino), Michael Dunn Stardust, Castelluccia Tears, Yunzhi gypsy jazz guitar, Gitane DG-320, DG-250M and DG-250
    Posts: 175
    I heard Django hated bad rhythm players, but hating the style he invented, l have not heard this .

    Blue Drag wrote: »
    FWIW I read an interview with Martin Taylor in which he said that Stephane Grapelli told him that he (Stephane) always hated La Pompe- style rythm and that Django hated it too. Go figure...

  • edited March 2017 Posts: 4,810
    I long believed that La Pompe and the whole HCQ signature sound simply came from Django trying to copy and imitate and sound like the swing/big band using limited resources and doing their best within those limitations.



    DragonPLNejc
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • SpaloSpalo England✭✭✭✭ Manouche Guitars "Modele Jazz Moreno" No.116, 1980's Saga Blueridge "Macaferri 500", Maton 1960's Semi, Fender Telecaster, Aria FA65 Archtop
    Posts: 186
    [Are you kidding me?!? Even Django and Stephane didn't think it was cool.
    [/quote]

    Well, they both dropped the pompe as soon as they could....

    Sp

  • Teddy DupontTeddy Dupont Deity
    Posts: 1,263
    It does not make any sense to suggest Django did not like La Pompe during the 30s. If he had not liked it, he would not have played it. Django played what he wanted to play in the way he wanted to play it. However, Django and the String Quintette did not always use La Pompe even during the 30s. That is some sort of misapprehension that has grown up over the last decade or so. The New Quintet seldom if ever used La Pompe and certainly not the very pronounced version that peaked around 1937. Django's music moved on and developed. He was not playing what is now considered to be Gypsy Jazz for many years.

    I do not think there is anything wrong with la Pompe if played properly. Sadly, it is often not. Everything is transitional. In a few years, someone will decide La Pompe is great again and everyone will be trying to play it.

    This is when La Pompe peaked for Django & Co.
    Buco
  • scotscot Virtuoso
    Posts: 657
    I'm with Roger, the rhythm section of Ferret/Bianchi has always been my favorite. I always heard a lighter and swingy-er touch from this pair than Chaput/Reinhardt. I guess nowadays, as the modern take on Django's music (and the subculture that has grown up around it) has matured and more guitarists have become more skilled at it, many musicians don't want to play exactly as was done in the past, which is as it should be anyway.

    It seems strange to me that anyone would wonder if this music was popular or cool today. Things that have intrinsic excellence, wherever they exist, are always cool; Django's music is no exception. When Django came to the US, it was a big deal. His music (or music inspired by it) has been used in movie soundtracks and TV commercials for decades. Influential American guitarists from Jerry Garcia to Jerry Reed, from John Fahey to Willie Nelson, always looked to Django for inspiration. Countless magazine articles were written about this music - entire issues of guitar magazines were devoted to Django. Stephan Grapelly did many tours here including one with David Grisman. Hipsters, punks and tattooed freaks post their Django vinyls on instagram? The reason they can do that is because these recordings were in print continuously from the start of the LP era until now and they were always pretty good sellers. There is plenty of DR vinyl around for hipster signalling...

    Hugh HuffakerBuco
  • @Teddy Dupont nailed it.

    Let the song lead the way. Some melodies go really well with the Pompe some are better with different styles. Most are best with a combination of styles sympathetically played.

    As DC says, Gypsy Jazz is the Way. To me that means acoustic string music with its roots in DR's music of the 30's. As a rhythm player, that means I have to be able to effortlessly play all my chord shapes and voicings in pompe, shuffle, tremolo, whole notes etc. etc. all the while listening to what is going on and respond/support sympathetically what is being played at the moment.

    Buco
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
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