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Sequence of Learning Forms

2

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  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,413
    Will, I'm a bit confused. If we're talking key of G Maj, say, Sweet Georgia Brown in G, or Hungaria - why wouldn't it just be all form 4, E pattern (if that's the form currently being worked on), and "major" dominant flavors - i.e., the dominants would all be from pg. 20, top?
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    Posts: 1,562
    Paul, assuming we're talking about a major key, then all the tonic arps would be chosen from page 20, and all the dominant arps would be chosen from page 24.

    In a minor key (or even a major tune that drifts temporarily into minor territory) we'd be choosing tonic arps from page 22 and the matching dominant arps from page 26.

    Anthony is talking about learning both major and minor arps at the same time, so he would be using forms from all four pages.

    Assuming he's concentrating on just the "E shape" form 4 arps, he'd be using the ones at the top of those four pages each time...

    ... except, as I understand his previous posting, whenever he plays the dominant form, he plans to transpose it up to D7 position so it sounds better working against its G maj or G min tonic.

    (HEY ANTHONY--- I hope you''ll correct me if I've got that wrong?)

    In any case, I just made up a little practice routine tab using Guitar Pro 6 which I plan to e-mail to everybody in the group as soon as I'm sure I'm matching Anthony's suggested practice routine.

    My routine goes like this--- using only the "E shape" form 4

    1) Three bars of D7 "major context" (That's because three bars is all Givone gives us on page 24)
    2) Three bars of G major (That's because three bars is all Givone gives us on page 20)
    3) Four bars of D7 "minor context"
    4) Four bars of G minor
    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,413
    OK, thanks, gotcha, Will. Sorry, talking GMaj tunes, I meant dominants from pg. 24, top, like you said.

    Of course, the very morning I talk of sticking to one form and working it, I do the opposite. Been spending today's practice doing all 5 major forms in serial keys, GABCDEF, and enchainements a la pg. 21. Problem for me is I was lazy early on - and though I know well notes on 1,2,5,6 strings, so can divine the forms pretty easily on the fly when a tonic hits on these, strings 3,4 are less known to me - so, for instance, form 5/D is my sticky form. This might not be the best way to get into tunes right away with this stuff, but already, just doing the major forms in all keys, these "dead" strings are coming home, I "get it."

    The more I get into this book, the more I see what a tremendous resource it is. Thanks for the heads up, guys.
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • anthon_74anthon_74 Marin county, CA✭✭✭✭ Alta Mira M 01
    Posts: 561
    mmmkay..... I must say I am a bit confused about what you're asking Will, so I will give an example of a play along over All of me, A section -

    For All of me - (C6 - E7 - A7 - Dm - E7 - Am - D7 - G6)

    Over the C6, I play form 4, E shape (pg 20) at the 8th fret position

    over the E7, I play form 4, E shape (pg 24) at the 12th fret position.

    Over the A7, I play form 4, E shape in minor context (because the next chord is a Dm) (pg 26) at the 5th fret position

    Over the Dm, I play form 4, E shape, (pg 22) at the 10th fret.

    Over the E7, same as before.
    Over the Am, Form 4, E shape ((pg 22) 5th fret
    Over the D7, Form 4, E shape (pg 24) at the 10th fret
    Over the G6, Form 4 E shape (pg 20) at the 3rd fret.

    I hope this answers any questions.
  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    Posts: 1,562
    OK, now it's a little clearer... well, just totally disregard the tab thing that I sent out by e-mail which was what I thought you were getting at!

    Will

    PS BTW, In "All of Me" shouldn't that final chord be G7?
    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."
  • anthon_74anthon_74 Marin county, CA✭✭✭✭ Alta Mira M 01
    Posts: 561
    Oh yes of course - I was thinking about sweet georgia brown when put G6.

    BTW - Honeysuckle rose is GREAT for practicing the 7th chord forms in the different positions.
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,413
    anthon_74 wrote:
    BTW - Honeysuckle rose is GREAT for practicing the 7th chord forms in the different positions.

    Anthon, can you say why, particularly? I love the tune, just curious why you like it so much in terms of the fixed form/changing positions. Thanks.
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • anthon_74anthon_74 Marin county, CA✭✭✭✭ Alta Mira M 01
    Posts: 561
    Anthon, can you say why, particularly? I love the tune, just curious why you like it so much in terms of the fixed form/changing positions. Thanks.

    I like it because it stays on the C7 (C9 to be exact but the form is the same) for 4 measures, and goes back to it repeatedly throughout the song, AND the changes are fairly simple in general. Since the chord stays the same for so long, you can practice the entire phrase of any given position.

    For the same reason I like Daphne or swing 42 for practicing the Major 6 forms.

    So what I do is this - the first go around I play in form 2 (the A shape) around the 3rd fret, and when the F comes, I play the F6 phrase in form 5. when the F7 - Bb/G7 - C happen, I try in stick to whatever form is closest to the position I'm currently in. (at that spot on the fretboard, stay on form 5 but change to the dominant 7 form for the F7, then do form 3 for the Bb- then form 4 for the G7 and finally form 2 for the C again)... during the B section, however, you do have to split the forms in half to fit them in, which can be a bit tricky.

    then the second go around I will move into the next position on the fret board and play C7 in form 3, and the F in form 1 . Then the same advice as before for the b section when the F7-Bb-G7-C happen.

    the next go around I do the C7 in form 4, and the F in form 2....

    and so on. Due to the generally long amount of time you get on each chord and the fairly simple changes involved, I have found it to be a great one for practicing forms.

    once you really have those forms down, try similar exercises for Sweet Georgia brown and All of me. those are more challenging.
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2012 Posts: 1,413
    Very cool, Anthon, thanks for the thoughts. So far I tend to stick to simple tunes (e.g., Swing 39, Minor Swing, Minor Blues, other simple things with few changes) but Honeysuckle is a tune I enjoy quite a but. Hungaria as well. Not very skilled at one measure covering, so it's pretty dodgy over quick changes. (I just try to get from one known pattern, close to an upcoming chord/pattern I know that is coming up, basically...musically, it works out, oh....not often:D ). What the heck - here's my core jam list, can do them reasonably from memory in terms of accompaniment, and after DIJ plan to work intensively on one a week:

    After You've Gone
    All of Me
    Anniversary Song
    Avalon (F)
    Blues en Mineur
    Blues in C
    Bossa Dorado
    Coquette
    Daphne
    Dark Eyes
    Djangology
    Django's Tiger
    Douce Ambiance
    Honeysuckle Rose
    Hungaria
    I Can't Give You Anything But Love
    It Don't Mean a Thing
    I've Found A New Baby
    J'attendrai
    Je Suis Ceul Se Soir
    Lady be Good
    Lulu Swing
    Limehouse Blues
    Manoir de Mes Reves/Django's Castle
    Minor Swing
    Nuages
    Rose Room
    Sheik of Araby
    Si Tu Savais
    Some of These Days
    Stompin' at Decca
    Sweet Georgia Brown
    Swing 39
    Swing 42
    Swing Gitan
    What's this thing called love

    -just started on the Givone minor forms today. That said,I like your idea of one form across M, m, dominants, so will probably work on that after DIJ.

    Thanks again. Great thread, everyone.
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • anthon_74anthon_74 Marin county, CA✭✭✭✭ Alta Mira M 01
    Posts: 561
    Holy crap that's a LOT of songs you know... I better get to work....
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