Why isn't Bireli famous in the US?

MichaelHorowitz

After watching the Super Guitar Trio DVD, I couldn't help come back to a thought I've had many times over the years:

Why isn't Bireli famous in the US?

Ok, he isn't exactly obscure in the guitar world. However, throughout my high school years, and my college years at Berklee, I don't ever remember hearing much about him. The guys that got all the attention where Pat Metheny, John Scofield, John McLaughlin, Larry Coryelle, Al Di Meola, etc. But when I listen to recordings of Bireli from the 80s, and 90s, he was clearly playing at, or above those guys. But he never seemed to get much respect for it. It's only now that he's older AND gone back to Gypsy jazz that he seems to be getting more recognition.

So here are a few of my theories. I'd like to know what people think:

1) Bireli is a victim of Gypsy musical stereotyping: I know that almost every Gypsy (including Django) that has tried to play something beyond the pre-war django style has faced heavy criticism. The public wants Gypsies to play like Django...and that's it. I know that this was an issue for Fapy. He gets pegged as being very traditional...but he actually played straight ahead electric stuff for years. But he was forced to go back to playing Django...he just couldn't get enough work doing anything else.

2) Although a technical genius, Bireli lacks a unique musical direction. It seems that Bireli likes to "conquer" musical genres one after another. Django, then Bop, then Fusion, etc. He seems to immerse himself in a style , learn all the vocabulary, and then outplay the best guys. But maybe he's missed something a long the way. Bireli definitely has an identifiable sound...he has a lot of humor in his playing which is so lacking in most players. But he hasn't really created a whole new genre...he's just really freaking good at the genres that are all ready around. So the fame of Pat Metheney is probably more about being one of pioneers of fusion then it is about being monster player (which he also is). I suppose you could say the same about Al Di Meola too.

3) Maybe Bireli just doesn't care: This is probably the main reason...he's a Gypsy so playing guitar is a lifestyle. He simply doesn't have the same career motivations that the Gadjos have. On a certain level, he's probably just happy to play, whether it's at the camp or at Carnegie hall. He's pulled a no show at more concerts then I can count. Behavior like that says it all...

I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts...

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WowBobWow

Hmmmm, I`d have to agree with you on the fact that nobody knows who lagrene is. During my jazz studies at SFSU and SBCC zero people know who lagrene is (most people knew heard of django!). It`s all about sounding like charlie parker or one of the guys you mentioned and mimicing them.

I am not sure if lagrene`s popularity is due to his management and exposure as much as it is that people`s ears are stretched to appreciate him (the common masses of folk who listen to pop and yanni, even jazz folks have no albums of`guitar led jazz` and probably couldn`t handle lagrene`s stuff).

I can remember listening to the best of QHCF compilation `Parisian Swing` all the time and I never heard of lagrene or the other live gypsy greats--Fapy, Tchavolo, Stochelo, etc. So when I heard lagrene`s Gypsy Project my ears couldn`t accept it until about 3 years ago--then it was like---holy sh*t!! This is insane!!! Nevertheless it took time for even my ears --a newborn djangogeek-- to come to terms with lagrene`s mastery of technique and phrasing.

Hopefully now that his younger albums have been released Lagrene will get more exposure and credit due (I recently bought the `Swing 81` and `routes to django` albums which are amazing to say the least). I teach guitar at a local music studio and I swear---there is no kid who is 13 who isn`t obsessed with green day and other pop shitte and it is a shame to imagine how if they were exposed to more cultural music like Lagrene or other intelligient music then their drive to excel in their musicianship would be stronger.

But hey, parker, bach, django, beethoven, and countless other music giants died poor and out of the spotlight, nevertheless in due time their shadows cast great sources of inspiration to a lot of people beyond their lifespan--perhaps Lagrene`s tale will follow their path, too.

WowBobWow

sorry, I meant people`s ears ARE`NT stretched to appreciate him...oops

trumbology

Interesting discussion question!

lukejazz

Hi All -

I believe that it's likely Birelli probably has not done the publicity work that other artists have. It takes a certain amount of prodding the press, etc. to make the music biz machine work no matter how great you are.

I wrote the editor of Just Jazz Guitar a couple of years ago and asked if he had considered doing a piece on Birelli. He responded by saying that he had tried to interview BL but didn't get very far. A lot of yes and no answers etc. You can imagine how far that would get anyone trying to get publicity.

On the other hand it's been good to see him get some articles in a couple of guitar magazines over the past year or so, so maybe he or his management are taking a new approach.

Kcox

Who?

I live in Canada, but I've never heard of the guy up here either. Is he any good?

Kcox

Ok, I was kidding but I think maybe we could be missing the obvious here... Birelli isn't American. By contrast, everyone else mentioned (to my limited knowledge) is. Doesn't that strike anyone else as less than a coincidence?

scot

Birili WAS pretty famous back in the 80s. He toured Europe with Jaco Pastorious, they made a record or two together. There were plenty of articles about him in GP, Frets etc back then too. I even remember seeing an article about him in Vanity Fair in '81 or '82. The most probable reason he never got the acclaim here that DiMeola, Metheny etc got was that he did not tour here all the time like those guys. Also he was usually recorded on Euro labels and those recordings were not always the easiest to find.

Plus Birili's playing (as a front man) always had that je ne sais quoi that made him appealing to guitar geeks but not especially so to mainstream jazz lovers. He was always technically strong but not always especially melodic. I've been listening to Birili since I bought a cassette of "Routes to Django" a long time ago, and my opinion of Birili has not changed much over the years. To me, he's at his best when he is playing solo guitar, or as a sideman. I agree with Neil's assessment of this. The best ensemble playing I ever heard by Birili was on the two CDs he did with Richard Galiano, which to this day is some of the best, most inspired jazz guitar playing I have ever heard. As a solo guitarist, he's awesome, and always has been.

I doubt if his not being American has much to do with it. Ed Bickert and Lenny Breau is/was always very popular here, so was Grapelly, Errol Garner and on and on.

Phil

Perhaps he's not famous in the US, as Miles Davis didn't ask him to be one of his sidemen, like Sco and Stern...

cheers

Phil

Jack

Isn't 'famous jazz guitarist' sort of an oxymoron?

In Bireli's case I think one of the biggest issues is simply access. In those dark pre-Internet days of not too long ago, you couldn't just walk into a Djangobooks store and choose from the plethora of discs you can find here on the site. So maybe the level of recognition in the general public will start to change. Without the web, I probably still wouldn't know about the Live in Vienne DVD...

Then there's the American issue: I don't think it's the fact that he's not American, but rather the fact that he doesn't sound American. He doesn't rely on the tropes that most Americans associate with jazz guitar. Django has certainly had the same trouble-who was it that said something like "Django? A clown with a mandolin!"-and I think the US jazz world has always been tougher to break into for these guys, even when the musicians here really appreciate the talent. It's sort of the "You're not doing it right" problem (an attitude common in gypsy jazz circles, too); snobbishness, essentially.

One question: is Bireli more famous in Canada than the US? My gut reaction is yes, but I don't really know.

Best,
Jack.

MichaelHorowitz

Thanks for all the responses!

I think when I said "famous", I meant widely known and respected in the guitar world. I'm not talking about the general listening audience. I think George Benson is the only one to actually get famous out side of the jazz world...and that's because he quit playing jazz and can sing!

Bireli sort of is famous in the guitar world. Probably more in Europe. In the US he doesn't seem to get the same hype that so many others get. There aren't hordes of Bireli wannanbes out there....at Berklee pretty much everyone wanted to be Pat Metheny, John Scofield, or Mike Stern. A couple of guys were more old school and liked Wes. And a few where into a John McLaughlin world music sort of thing. As far as I know, no one wanted to be Bireli. Sure, some people knew that there was this Gypsy child prodigy that played like Django. But it seemed to end there.

I think the fact that he's not American probably does have a lot to do with it. Mostly because we're talking about jazz, and there's definitely a bias against non-Americans in jazz. But plenty of guys make it....like NHOP. But in many cases, non-Americans seem to have more success playing some sort of hyphenated form of jazz (i.e. Latin-Jazz, Balkan-Jazz, and of course, Gypsy-Jazz.) I think it's safe to say that Bireli is going to do better in the US with a Sel-Mac then he would with his archtop. When he's playing Django he's so much more interesting to Americans...it's something different. Very European, and very Gypsy. The fact that he could out do Mike Stern on a Strat is besides the point...

Nevertheless, Bireli seems to be keeping a really diverse performance schedule. His upcoming CD with Joey Defrancesco tells us that he's doing a lot more then Django these days. But is anybody listening?

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