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bracing in the nylon maccaferri?

not gypsy jazz gear per se, but i didn´t found a more suitable category to post in. the question is already in the title and should be (i suppose) pretty straightforward to answer: what´s the bracing system used in the original nylon string (or was it gut still?) cutaway selmer maccaferris?

i´m curious, because in the modéle jazz guitars that were later adapted by gypsy music, the bridge is located upon - if i got this correct - the two vertical wood pieces (are they called braces too, BTW?) that link the two wider and centre transversal braces, which i suppose should subtract to the decay of the instrument. in addition, classical spanish designs don´t exhibit transversal bracing in the soundboard beneath the soundhole - so my bet is that the classical maccaferri guitar should have a bracing system more akin to the traditional Torres fan bracing system.

any answers are deeply appreciated.

thanks,
Miguel.
«1

Comments

  • noodlenotnoodlenot ✭✭✭
    Posts: 388
    OK, to answer my own question, and in case anyone else is interested, from Paul Hostetter´s site (http://www.lutherie.net/bckgrnd.html):

    "The Maccaferri classical guitar is tonally much more akin to other nylon-strung guitars (of course in the early 1930s, there were only gut strings) because it has a fan-braced top and a relatively conventional glued-on bridge. Its cutaway, coupled with its unique voice, make it an extraordinary choice not only for classical playing (for which Mario Maccaferri designed it, and played himself so beautifully) but for Brazilian music, jazz and myriad other applications."
  • bokchoybokchoy New
    Posts: 19
    There is a blueprint of the guitar by Francois Charle available on the...what is it?...Gypsy Jazz Guitar site which shows the bracing in detail.
    Closer to the Torres guitar, yes, although there are some finer differences.
    For example there is a lower harmonic bar underneath the harmonic bar below the soundhole. Then the widely splayed fan struts begin.
    This is something that I've only seen in one other classical guitar maker whose name I can't seem to remember now.
    Also, there is a "Spanish double foot" used for the neck block.
    A variation from the Torres it looks like a "U" shape was scooped out of the block of wood, supporting both the back and the soundboard (or fretboard).
    All in all, though, the bracing design is closer to deTorres than anything else.
  • bokchoybokchoy New
    Posts: 19
    -The name of the site is Gypsy Guitars.com and if you click "accessories" you will find the blueprints.
    -The name of the luthier I was thinking of is Vincente Tatay from Valencia.
    He does a version of this double harmonic bar.
    -It seems to me that I remember hearing that the defintion of a strut technically depends on the piece of wood's degree of vertical positioning.
    As opposed to a brace.
    Something like that.
    -Classical Spanish guitars USED to have transversal bracing.
    I often think of the guitars of La Cote as a typical example of this kind of instrument.
    I wonder if Maccaferri based his new bracing style on the Cote model?
    Anyway, it would be interesting to try and construct a Gypsy guitar using this Cote bracing!
  • noodlenotnoodlenot ✭✭✭
    Posts: 388
    thanks for the reply!
    yes, the blueprints, despite small, are a good help.
    you are right, comparing the classic mac with a later Torres model plans (grabed, for instance, from http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/resr7g3w/plans/ ) they are close in spirit (if compared with the modéle jazz), but there are lots of small (or not so small) differences that should sum up to a more pronounced effect. for instance, i notice that the back of the classic maccaferri seems to be slightly more domed. the fan braces start lower in the lower bout (i.e. further away from the waist) and they don´t end in a V-shape. the upper bout (less vibrating part) of the top is very differently braced, with two diagonal braces particularly standing out. i wonder if any of this had to do with the internal resonator (if they had one, that is)? ... this just makes me more curious to hear the sound of a nylon classical maccaferri.

    on another note, the LaCote bracing you are referring to it´s the one with the slanted (diagonal) transversal brace in the lower bout, right? i wonder how that would work with the pliage and tail-piece mounted strings.

    cheers,
    Miguel
  • bokchoybokchoy New
    Posts: 19
    -The blueprints are small, yes.
    Enlarge them if you can, or squint your eyes and use your imagination!
    And yes, that is the LaCote that I was thinking of.
    Granted, some adjustments would have to be made if constructing a Gypsy Jazz guitar with this bracing!
    -I believe that the early classicals did have the internal resonators but that the resonators didn't remain in production very long.
    - Of course, when bringing the classical guitar into association with Django Reinhardt we find that he favoured the luthier Hermann Hauser II :
    'Andres Segovia, Julian Bream, DJANGO REINHARDT, and many others highly appreciated the hospitality and the instruments of Hermann Hauser II.'
    www.hauserguitars.de/
    english version
    History
    paragraph 2
    -And also to mention the recent concert by Roland Dyens honouring Django!
    And playing a classical!
    How relevant! How significant!
  • noodlenotnoodlenot ✭✭✭
    Posts: 388
    didn´t know about djago´s favouring an Hauser, but i guess that anyone lucky enough to play a 2nd Hauser to this day would favour it as well.

    cheers,
    Miguel.
  • bokchoybokchoy New
    Posts: 19
    noodlenot wrote:
    didn´t know about djago´s favouring an Hauser, but i guess that anyone lucky enough to play a 2nd Hauser to this day would favour it as well.

    cheers,
    Miguel.
    Exactly! Exactly!!
    It seems that the ultimate criteria for the Jazz guitarist in choosing an instrument is that the Jazz musician wants the absolute best!
    There is an interesting site that has great photos of the interior of a Hermann Hauser ll guitar at
    E-Hauser Restore/ Andrea Tacchi.
    Evidentally HH ll was interested in experimenting with the bracing of his guitars so that in this example the harmonic bar below the soundhole is somewhat curved instead of going straight across.
    Much like Django Reinhardt was an experimental musician.
    Also, the site My Hauser Research Paper has good information on Hauser guitars.
    Take care!
  • noodlenotnoodlenot ✭✭✭
    Posts: 388
    hey, thanks for those links! they´re gonna be a good reading.

    cheers,
    Miguel.
  • bokchoybokchoy New
    Posts: 19
    noodlenot wrote:
    hey, thanks for those links! they´re gonna be a good reading.

    cheers,
    Miguel.
    I came across a guitar made by Luis Patenotte on e-bay which is still listed.
    Nice piece. They call it a "Gypsy Guitar". Interesting.
    It is in the form of a classical guitar(complete with a crude deTorres shaped headstock) and who knows what form of bracing is used inside!?
    Could be anything, but I think that it would be fun to use some of that LeCote or even
    Mario Maccaferri bracing design in making a copy.
    Or even Hermann Hauser ll !
    I typed in "Patenotte" under "musical instruments".
  • noodlenotnoodlenot ✭✭✭
    Posts: 388
    yup, interesting! seems 3 / 4 gypsy and 1 / 4 classic :)
    as for bracing, i´d put my money on a traditional trasnverse / ladder bracing.
    would love to hear this one myself. maybe fratter (fellow member) knows something about this guitar, he seems a guitar encyclopedia.
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