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  • MichaelHorowitz 1:08PM

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Sinti culture, language & the origin of the name Django

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  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,019
    i have to go now, but WOW that yves salgues document seems to validate my theory!!! I was never aware of it!!!!! thanks so much!

    as far as pronunciation goes, i don't know about international phonetics, so i'm not sure how to explain it… but when Django pronounced his name, it doesn't sound like the way English people pronounce it
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    edited August 2014 Posts: 2,019
    Dennis, you mention the word used by the Roma lawuta to nam a violin, does it have any relation with the name of the 'gypsy' tribe named Lautari and specialized in music?


    I don't know, and I don't know the origins of the word, I just know that some Sinti still use that word instead of gaiga. An expert on Eastern European romanes would be able to better answer this
  • François RAVEZFrançois RAVEZ FranceProdigy
    Posts: 275
    Django pronounced his name, it doesn't sound like the way English people pronounce it

    In what part of the name is the différence : DJ-AN-GO?

    Is it in the beginning dzh or zh?

    Best

    François
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,019
    oh the Dj was not my concern, it was more how the "an" was pronounced … the romani pronunciation for i awake is closer to the english way of pronouncing Dj AN go than the french dJEANgo
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,019
    when i have time , i'll research it, but can you tell us more about yves salgues? where did he come up with such an anecdote ?
  • François RAVEZFrançois RAVEZ FranceProdigy
    Posts: 275
    Thanks Dennis, I understand better.

    Regarding Salgues, I have no information, but I opened a separate topic.

    Best

    François
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,019
    I just skimmed through the article, it was very interesting, one wonders where he got those anecdotes, but it was written just after django's death, so there were more opportunities to collect anecdotes!!!

    a few interesting things, at one point he talks about how django was disgusted by a particular recording that he heard of louis armstrong where the guitar was out of tune, i looked up the recording, and it's definitely true that the guitar was out of tune! Shows that django is very sensitive to pitch.

    In another part of the article, he talks about django's apparently first recorded solo with andre ekyan, he mentions it being 16 measures, and it is indeed true. I wonder if Salgues was a musician or knew about how to count measures, but his account was definitely accurate.

    Interestingly enough, the origins of the quintet differ from another biographical source i had read not long ago and unfortunately i forget which one (if someone can help, i'd appreciate it)… they talked about django jamming back stage during gigs with the Louis Vola orchestra. In the biographical account that I had read, Roger Chaput was the other guitarist (and sometimes joseph replaced)… When the first incarnation of the quintet was formed, chaput was the original rhythm guitarist, and joseph later joined…

    in salgues' article, it's the other way around, it was joseph first and then chaput.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,019
    If Michael will allow me to edit the article at one point, i will be sure to include some of these new found discoveries, and I will clarify the Django pronunciation issue.

    It was also brought to my attention that the word Zenelo (Green), which I used as an example in the article, comes from slavic languages, and is originally Zeleno. Some gypsies do say zeleno, but i've often heard zenelo more often than the other.. Of course, my encounters do not represent the entire sinti population, so it does not mean anything.

    Watti Rosenberg and his old group Sonnekai, recorded a song called "Choukar Chai an O Sennelo Weesch", and I believe Paulus' cousin Sendelo's name also comes from the colour green.


  • François RAVEZFrançois RAVEZ FranceProdigy
    Posts: 275
    Interestingly enough, the origins of the quintet differ from another biographical source i had read not long ago and unfortunately i forget which one (if someone can help, i'd appreciate it)… they talked about django jamming back stage during gigs with the Louis Vola orchestra. In the biographical account that I had read, Roger Chaput was the other guitarist (and sometimes joseph replaced)… When the first incarnation of the quintet was formed, chaput was the original rhythm guitarist, and joseph later joined…

    Michael Dregni goes for Joseph then Chaput. Alain Antonietto seems to believe more in Chaput, but without being sure. I could not find one of the many Stéphane interviews where he recalls this anecdote.

    Best

    François
  • Teddy DupontTeddy Dupont Deity
    Posts: 1,159
    Interestingly enough, the origins of the quintet differ from another biographical source i had read not long ago and unfortunately i forget which one (if someone can help, i'd appreciate it)… they talked about django jamming back stage during gigs with the Louis Vola orchestra. In the biographical account that I had read, Roger Chaput was the other guitarist (and sometimes joseph replaced)… When the first incarnation of the quintet was formed, chaput was the original rhythm guitarist, and joseph later joined…

    Michael Dregni goes for Joseph then Chaput. Alain Antonietto seems to believe more in Chaput, but without being sure. I could not find one of the many Stéphane interviews where he recalls this anecdote.

    Best

    François

    In Charles Delaunay's book, he quotes Stephane Grappelli as saying it was Roger Chaput originally and because Django wanted another rhythm guitarist to add depth to the sound whilst he was soloing, Joseph joined them. The Chaput/Joseph chronology makes more sense to me as if it had started with Joseph, I think Django would have chosen another gypsy as an additional player not Chaput.

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