Dugain picks suggestion

emicad

I've received from a friend, after a visit to Paris, a pick by Charles Dugain, I suppose for Gypsy Jazz from his typical shape and thickness (4mm), the material is "Bois Palissandre". Finally I can see is a very good pick, with a good sound and a very ergonomical shape cause there is an hollow for the thumb and another on the back for the index, I've never seen nothing similar before, helpful to mantain the position and relax the right hand. The only bad thing is that i've played one hour with this pick and after playing I've noticed that the pick is half worn-out, probably becase the wood picks are not so durable. I've found on the Oscar music catalog (the place where my friend have taken the pick) a great choice of Dugain 4mm picks of various materials like bone, various woods, Quartz, Acrylic, Acetate, Horn and a lot of others.
Anyone have a suggestion of a material to have a good sound and a good durability?
This is the link of the Dugain picks section
http://www.oscarmusic.com/GUITARE/guita ... 04&FAM=11A
Thanks

drolling

Hi Emiliano, I like Dugain picks as well. The groove on the back seems to help to keep the pick from rotating in my grip. Each material produces a very different sound, but the wooden ones do wear out faster than the ones made of bone or stone.

Indian sarod picks are very similar in design to the Dugain picks but are a fraction of the price. I believe Michael has some for sale here in horn, rosewood & ebony. The current batch are pointier than the Dugains, but the tip can be filed or sanded down to a rounder shape. I prefer the sound and feel of ebony, which is more durable than rosewood. The horn picks seem to last forever, but I don't like the tone as much.

Bob Holo

Pallisander is another name for Rosewood. Some Rosewoods are heavy - bordering on Ebony, some are not so heavy - I've played a few Dugain Rosewoods... seemed medium density... nice stuff but wears out quickly and not a terribly good lead pick as the more you play it the more drag it develops, but IMHO the best of the Dugains I've tried.

Here are the others I've tried and my personal observations which you folks are obvioulsy free to disagree with in whole or part I'd be open to trying more Dugains, but I'm not sure which direction to go in... maybe his lignum picks would be good... lignum is a really hard wood with a lot of natural oils in it. In fact, Lignum was once used to make bushings in machinery. It's darned tough wood - and slippery as woods go.

1.) Ebony - nice at first but develops friction as it wears
2.) Horn - a little less friction than Ebony - a "rosin-like" friction - nice for rhythm - squeaks a little but not bad.
3.) Rosewood (Palissandre) - nice but wears quickly
4.) Bone - Fantastic for about 10 minutes then begins to wear and squeak - yuck yuck yuck.
5.) Quartz - nice but tough on strings - beat the he** out of my G string in under an hour.

emicad

Thanks to all
So...what I must to do?

Bob Holo

Get some good cheap picks and then try other people's picks till you find what you like. When you're at a jam and you see a different pick, just say: "Hey man, can I try your pick for a song or two?" I went the other way - I bought and tried a lot of picks. It's an expensive way to do it, but it works too. Actually, I like having them all - it's fun to switch picks and get different sounds. There are very few picks that I've outright thrown away. Most have some use and your technique will be a larger determinant of your sound than your pick - though a rotten pick can keep you from progressing. So - the goal is to get something that responds right so you can work on technique - and sounds fairly good so you stay interested.

I don't know where you'll find them in your local area, but I found some pictures online of these picks so you'll know what I'm talking about. These are the best cheap picks I've found:

Dunlop Tortex 1.14mm original teardrop - great all around pick
http://static.zoovy.com/img/guitarelect ... gpt2pr.jpg

Dunlop 206 - great all around pick
http://www.george-music-shop.de/webshop ... op_206.jpg

Dunlop 208 - great lead pick, a little too sharp for my rhythm stroke.
http://www.swing-express.com/shop/parts/gypsy-p-3.jpg

I don't work for Dunlop - I've just found that these picks work very well and I've tried a LOT of picks. My Gadjo was calling me Pick-boy for a while. The combination of shape and materials on these picks is really good. I think the 1.14mm tortex is a really great cheap pick. It may not be the best pick in the world, but you can learn on it. IMHO every gypsy player in the world should have a handful of these three picks in his case for emergency backup for himself and his fellow players. It will allow you to learn the right technique without spending a lot of money.

emicad

Bob Holo wrote:

Get some good cheap picks and then try other people's picks till you find what you like. When you're at a jam and you see a different pick, just say: "Hey man, can I try your pick for a song or two?" I went the other way - I bought and tried a lot of picks. It's an expensive way to do it, but it works too. Actually, I like having them all - it's fun to switch picks and get different sounds. There are very few picks that I've outright thrown away. Most have some use and your technique will be a larger determinant of your sound than your pick - though a rotten pick can keep you from progressing. So - the goal is to get something that responds right so you can work on technique - and sounds fairly good so you stay interested.

I don't know where you'll find them in your local area, but I found some pictures online of these picks so you'll know what I'm talking about. These are the best cheap picks I've found:

Dunlop Tortex 1.14mm original teardrop - great all around pick
http://static.zoovy.com/img/guitarelect ... gpt2pr.jpg

Dunlop 206 - great all around pick
http://www.george-music-shop.de/webshop ... op_206.jpg

Dunlop 208 - great lead pick, a little too sharp for my rhythm stroke.
http://www.swing-express.com/shop/parts/gypsy-p-3.jpg

I don't work for Dunlop - I've just found that these picks work very well and I've tried a LOT of picks. My Gadjo was calling me Pick-boy for a while. The combination of shape and materials on these picks is really good. I think the 1.14mm tortex is a really great cheap pick. It may not be the best pick in the world, but you can learn on it. IMHO every gypsy player in the world should have a handful of these three picks in his case for emergency backup for himself and his fellow players. It will allow you to learn the right technique without spending a lot of money.

At first thanks for all the informations. I can say i have tryied all the "commercial" picks, from wegen to AK, to Moustache picks (the best choice for me) and others but i've seen that playing with this Dugain pick all seems different, the right hand movements are correct, clean, my hand is relaxed and the pick have the right response to my movements and, before all, a good sound, hot and sharp. Finally i can also say that my right hand technique is improving so i think i've found "my" pick. For this reason i think to try the sarod picks ordering it from Michael, i've seen they have the same shape, but i have some little questions before ordering all: I've seen there are three different types, Rosewood, Ebony and Horn, so i can try all the types without any problem, but, have you a suggestion in particular? so i can take more than one making one only order, i'm in Italy and i don't want to spend money with different orders.
The last thing, speaking about the Dugain, the choice is very big, maybe too much for my wallet, so i can't order all the models, have you some suggestions? or can you tell me some model i CAN'T take for sure?
I've also seen your links and i can say i have some of that picks by Jim Dunlop, but i have some 3 and 4mm models, always in my guitar case, if you want i can send you a couple but i think you can find it without any problem.
Thanks, pick boy
PS: I can't try the picks of my friends, here in Rome i am the boy who try and buy the picks for all the others...

Jack

emicad wrote:

For this reason i think to try the sarod picks ordering it from Michael, i've seen they have the same shape, but i have some little questions before ordering all: I've seen there are three different types, Rosewood, Ebony and Horn, so i can try all the types without any problem, but, have you a suggestion in particular? so i can take more than one making one only order, i'm in Italy and i don't want to spend money with different orders.

I think he already answered your question:

Bob Holo wrote:

1.) Ebony - nice at first but develops friction as it wears
2.) Horn - a little less friction than Ebony - a "rosin-like" friction - nice for rhythm - squeaks a little but not bad.
3.) Rosewood (Palissandre) - nice but wears quickly

Personally, I'd say try the ebony and maybe the horn; all the rosewood picks I've had wore out too quickly to be worth it.

Best,
Jack.

emicad

Jack wrote:

emicad wrote:

For this reason i think to try the sarod picks ordering it from Michael, i've seen they have the same shape, but i have some little questions before ordering all: I've seen there are three different types, Rosewood, Ebony and Horn, so i can try all the types without any problem, but, have you a suggestion in particular? so i can take more than one making one only order, i'm in Italy and i don't want to spend money with different orders.

I think he already answered your question:

Bob Holo wrote:

1.) Ebony - nice at first but develops friction as it wears
2.) Horn - a little less friction than Ebony - a "rosin-like" friction - nice for rhythm - squeaks a little but not bad.
3.) Rosewood (Palissandre) - nice but wears quickly

Personally, I'd say try the ebony and maybe the horn; all the rosewood picks I've had wore out too quickly to be worth it.

Best,
Jack.

I know...it was just for a confirmation, thank you.

Bob Holo

Ah, so you're the Italian Pick Boy ... I enjoyed visiting Italy. My wife and I got an apartment in Sienna for about 8 days and loved it.

It sounds like you're beyond the cheap picks. Of the commercial picks, I like the thin Wegen (I don't know if he still sells it? 2mm? ... he made them for the release of Stochelo Rosenberg's book. I can't remember - it was a while ago.

Right now I'm playing a ~3mm pick I carved out of a Tagua nut. It plays great. I love natural materials but it took me a long time to get the shape/bevel right.

I know what you mean about that nice boxy hot sound of the wooden Dugain picks. It's a very unique feel and sound - it gives the guitar a nice hollow reverb and chop - very natural sounding and projects well. If you like that feel and sound... then the Dugain or Pearse Rosewoods might be nice for you. I think I like Coconut even better than rosewood because it sounds and feels similar but last a a little longer. There is a guy in Britain who makes coconut picks - he used to sell them on Ebay fairly cheap. I can't remember the name but I tried a friend's and it had that same feel and sound. His picks were large compared to Dugain / Pearse and looked a LOT like this guy's coconut picks (maybe this is the same guy?) http://www.palhetas.com/handmade.htm

That wooden pick sound is very unique - I haven't found anything else that will give it except coconut, rosewood and ebony. Tagua nut plays very nice but it is warmer sounding. I don't know why Dugain uses so many different materials. All those super-hard picks either "click" or "squeak" or both.

emicad

Bob Holo wrote:

Ah, so you're the Italian Pick Boy ... I enjoyed visiting Italy. My wife and I got an apartment in Sienna for about 8 days and loved it.

It sounds like you're beyond the cheap picks. Of the commercial picks, I like the thin Wegen (I don't know if he still sells it? 2mm? ... he made them for the release of Stochelo Rosenberg's book. I can't remember - it was a while ago.

Right now I'm playing a ~3mm pick I carved out of a Tagua nut. It plays great. I love natural materials but it took me a long time to get the shape/bevel right.

I know what you mean about that nice boxy hot sound of the wooden Dugain picks. It's a very unique feel and sound - it gives the guitar a nice hollow reverb and chop - very natural sounding and projects well. If you like that feel and sound... then the Dugain or Pearse Rosewoods might be nice for you. I think I like Coconut even better than rosewood because it sounds and feels similar but last a a little longer. There is a guy in Britain who makes coconut picks - he used to sell them on Ebay fairly cheap. I can't remember the name but I tried a friend's and it had that same feel and sound. His picks were large compared to Dugain / Pearse and looked a LOT like this guy's coconut picks (maybe this is the same guy?) http://www.palhetas.com/handmade.htm

That wooden pick sound is very unique - I haven't found anything else that will give it except coconut, rosewood and ebony. Tagua nut plays very nice but it is warmer sounding. I don't know why Dugain uses so many different materials. All those super-hard picks either "click" or "squeak" or both.

Yes, I'm italian, i'm happy you've liked this place, but believe me, for a GJ player, listener or simply a musical lover in general isn't a good place to live in.
So i've understood that the best choice is Rosewood, Ebony and Coconut, i'll try all these three options. I think, considering your suggestions, is unuseless to try materials like bone, quartz ecc. for the well known "click" problem and acrylic and syntetic materials in general for the damn "plastic" sound i personally don’t like.
I'll take a look at the website of that guy to see if he can do coconut picks with the shape of the dugain or similar, thanks.
What about Tagua nut? You make it by yourself?
I've heard also from Dave Kelbie he use tortoise picks handmaded by himself like also Fapy Lafertin but is really difficoult to find because here is illegal.