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Who uses the CAGED system

edited January 2009 in Gypsy Jazz 101 Posts: 193
I saw the CAGED system on the serendipity site and I wanted to know who uses it, I dont think its a great system :?
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Comments

  • BluesBop HarryBluesBop Harry Mexico city, MexicoVirtuoso
    Posts: 1,378
    I learned it a long time ago it's really good, Joe Pass used to teach that system.

    Learn all you can! It won't hurt you...
  • lmntrylmntry Portland , Oregon✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 92
    I learned a modified version (ACE) through the Johnny Smith method book and a great local jazz instructor....and then re-aquainted myself 5 years ago with the CAGED.

    Extremely valuable system of linking and making sense of the fretboard.

    Whats not to like ?



    David
  • djangologydjangology Portland, OregonModerator Dell Arte Hommage
    Posts: 887
    I believe that Stephane Wrembel teaches his beginner students with the ACE system also. At least his MelBay book teaches it, although it doesn't say so explicitly in the book.

    Since gypsy jazz is arpeggio based, it might make perfect sense that the CAGED system fits really well for the style.
    ---
    "I want to party like its 1939!"
  • Posts: 597
    Any links to an ACE site? Plenty of CAGED stuff out there, and ACE is basically a reduction ... but not an easy online search.
  • V-dubV-dub San Francisco, CA✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 265
    When I read this, I wasn't familiar with the ACE or CAGED system, but now that I've read up on it, I can tell that I use it in some form. That is, I base a lot of phrases on chord-shape based fretboard patterns. Good to see it broken down into a more tangible system.

    I'm sure I picked it up from transcribing and analyzing solos, and I'm quite certain a lot of gypsy players (particularly Stochelo, Paulus, and Jimmy) heavily rely on guitar chord shapes to formulate their ideas.
  • Lucius371Lucius371 Lakewood, WANew
    Posts: 22
    Nice thread guys,
    The CAGED method is taught to most young jazz guitarists and despite my tremendous respect for Joe Pass I found that, in the primordal phase of ones study, it limits your horizontal conception of the neck and the evocative nuances therof.
    A previous reply mentioned that true gypsies learn chord shapes and associated patterns. All lines relative to the chord. I concur with that, after all- What does a chord and all its extensions make?....a scale. What an excellent way to learn.
    I'm not really an advocate of Jimmy Bruno or economy picking, however his books have some very nice scale shapes and exersizes that incorporate lateral lines with the Caged method. A tight book also, that's primarily caged, or vertically oriented lines is "Linear Expressions" by Pat Martino.
    I feel the caged method for younger students yields quick results but can be hindrance to learning true harmony and mastery of the neck, which is what Joe Pass had and intended for us to learn.
    "de non conveniendo cum hereticus"
  • FransFrans The Netherlands✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 53
    Hi all,
    I've found the CAGED system very valuable but the downside is that you will only start to reap the benefits when you go deeper into the matter and start linking all possible positions, I've found the use of tried and true "standards" like "all the things you are" very beneficial because the abundance of chords forces you to "change " every two or four beats. In the beginning it will feel like you are shooting clay pigeons but keep at it and you will be able to switch any chord in any position, be it vertical or horizontal
    my two cents
    kind regards
    Frans
  • djangologydjangology Portland, OregonModerator Dell Arte Hommage
    Posts: 887
    In the beginning it will feel like you are shooting clay pigeons

    Thats EXACTLY how I feel!
    ---
    "I want to party like its 1939!"
  • BluesBop HarryBluesBop Harry Mexico city, MexicoVirtuoso
    Posts: 1,378
    The CAGED system is good but I've found that in Gypsy Jazz horizontal patterns are used most often so learning the two would be the best way to go, I think.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,040
    any system that helps you play well is good..

    however at one point , the student needs to stop thinking in terms of shapes and only in terms of music (ie what the ear hears)... at that point whatever pattern/shape you play is merely a coincidence...

    It is the hardest thing ever, but that is the ultimate musical goal... that is something that django mastered... and few have mastered today... angelo debarre, bireli, wawau adler are a few in the django style..

    spending time with wawau was so interesting.. to me he's a musical genius, and really one of the top 5 in my opinion... but when he says he knows nothing... it's really true... he doesn't know how to play a pentatonic scale shape... i tried showing him a few simple things, he just couldn't do it, or he was having ah ard time figuring it out...

    but he has excelelnt ears, he hears music , the lines he plays fall within a shape, but that is merely a coincidence... if you ask him to play the shape from which the line came from, he'd be lost...

    PURE MUSIC!
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