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Bergara How I Learned Vol III?

NewtonNewton New
edited October 2013 in Gypsy Jazz 101 Posts: 12
Just curious if there is any rumor of a third volume considered or in the works. Would be very cool. They are good books.
Vol III could include a waltz, bossa, chordal licks, tremolo stuff, etc.
Just a thought.
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Comments

  • Michael BauerMichael Bauer Chicago, ILProdigy Selmers, Busatos and more…oh my!
    Posts: 1,002
    I asked Gonzalo once if there would be a third book, and I got a very emphatic "No"!

    Those things are an awful lot of work, and I thought he did a brilliant job with them. Unfortunately, there were some vocal complaints about them being overpriced and underproduced, which I thought was nonsense. I guess some people wanted coffee table books. Even if everyone in the gypsy jazz community bought a copy, Gonzalo probably wouldn't clear more than minimum wage for all the hours that went in to making them.

    I'm still backed up working through all the media that I have, so I have not checked out the videos he did with Denis Chang, but perhaps you should. Denis makes top-notch videos, and I'll bet the Gonzalo one is really great. Maybe his video will fill in some of the blanks for you.
    I've never been a guitar player, but I've played one on stage.
  • hanear21hanear21
    Posts: 62
    I can vouch for those videos. They are excellent and can be studied just like his books. He also gives some great insight into his approach to songwriting and playing with conviction. I saw huge results after studying just one solo so I imagine learning all of them could really take your playing to the next level.
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,425
    A second for the Gonzalo series from Denis's site. All of the series, actually - for me, in particular, Hono remains a rock that keeps on giving.

    Michael, I hear you on a surfeit of media. Trying to figure out a practice regimen at about 75% rhythm and 25% lead time daily; rhythm regimen is great - thanks to Denis, Ted Gottsegen, and, eventually, a return to both Hono and Nousche.

    But a lead practice regimen....<<shrugs>>. With Stephane's book, Denis's work (In the Style of Stochelo - waltzes, jazz manouche; Denis's improv series), Christian's RA, and...the thought of nothing but listening to Django, 1937-1948. Listen and repeat, that is. Or Lollo. Or Fapy.

    For a guy checked by a gnawing sense I've about 8 years left of playing time, and absolutely no real experience playing lead, this surfeit of approaches to learning lead, I find, is lethal.
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • Bob HoloBob Holo Moderator
    edited October 2013 Posts: 1,252
    It's not over till it's over, Paul. Do what you love until you're so old that it pisses other people off that you're still doing it ;-)

    It is unfortunate though, that Gonzalo's first two books attracted a handful of critics in addition to the many who "got it". People kept asking him for notes so he managed to find spare time to make some notes and developed a method. So he sat down and photocopied it and mailed it off to Michel & Nick and got back to writing and recording. I'm sure he was thinking: "Well, that was a pain in the ass, but I hope it'll help some people."

    BTW: My favorite book on luthiery is a photocopy of Robert Bouchet's shop journal. It's just a book of photocoped stuff found in his shop. I can't read his writing, and I don't understand colloquial French, but the pictures are great. Gonzalo's book is a hundred times easier to approach than the Bouchet. I try to figure out what the hell Bouchet was trying to accomplish by doing what the drawing shows and until I figure out what he was really getting at. Seeing through his eyes and banging my head on the same problems he encountered is an incredibly rich learning experience. Good learning is about banging on concepts until you know them deeply.

    Gonzalo's books are like that... like: "This is the concept of using a descending triad to bring tension and release - now go work on it until it means something to you." and I do really like the DCMS stuff because it is a visual representation of conceptual learning; a top musician asking the artist intelligent questions as he plays." Michael H's books - long as they are - are very conceptual with in-depth exposition. Or Stephane's or Chris' - the concept with someone who really understands it connecting the dots. But all this stuff comes from passion because there's no money in it. People occasionally ask me if I'm going to publish, but plans are useless to anyone but offshore factories programming CNC machines, and most often they're drawn by guys who didn't understand the instrument so they just codify misconceptions. Buying a one-off guitar plans is like buying some guy's written description of a Django solo... haha... A dozen accurate plans and knowing how each of the guitars differed... approaches "useful". But turning data into knowledge and coalescing it is hard work as any of the guys mentioned above can tell you. Our grandchildren will laugh at our ways of learning anyway - in a hundred years, learning will be like this: http://homes.cs.washington.edu/~rao/brain2brain/

    So, my hat is off to Gonzalo and the other gents mentioned above for their efforts whether they choose to continue doing it or not.

    BTW: the new HCOA stuff is AWESOME... pick it up if you haven't.
    You get one chance to enjoy this day, but if you're doing it right, that's enough.
  • kevingcoxkevingcox Nova Scotia✭✭✭✭ Dupont MD50
    Posts: 298
    Bob, your comments remind of the old concept that when any model of a thing (a brain, for example) reaches the necessary complexity to actually describe that thing completely it is so complex that it is useless as a model. I haven't paraphrased that very well, but essentially any book that were complex enough to describe luthiery (or GJ guitar) would be less useful to the user than just doing the thing described therein.
  • Bob HoloBob Holo Moderator
    edited October 2013 Posts: 1,252
    Actually I think you paraphrased it with near perfection. That's exactly the concept I was trying so ineptly to describe in a thousand words or less (haha).

    ... and you did it in a sentence.
    You get one chance to enjoy this day, but if you're doing it right, that's enough.
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,425
    Bob Holo wrote:
    It's not over till it's over, Paul. Do what you love until you're so old that it pisses other people off that you're still doing it ;-)

    Without wanting to hijack further, just want to say thank you, Bob. I'm doing everything I can to keep the hounds at bay. I love this music and its people.

    Haven't gotten the HCOA yet, meant to - thanks, Bob, for reminding of this, as well.
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • NewtonNewton New
    Posts: 12
    Sorry to hear the experience left a bad feeling for Gonzalo Bergara. They are still good books.
    Thanks for the recommendation for the videos he did with Denis Chang. I overlooked those somehow. Basically the same tunes as the books with a few of his own compositions thrown in. That would be good for me right now. Nothing like knowing a few things well instead a lot of stuff poorly.
  • Bob HoloBob Holo Moderator
    Posts: 1,252
    I know several musicians who have put out books and planned sequels but then couldn't find time to do them because other projects kept coming in. So it might just be that simple.

    Guys Like Dennis and Chris swoop in and save the day for us all - producing lessons and repertoire builders and artist focused instruction ... But I really don't know how they find the time to do it either. Both of them have musical and academic experience; particularly scoring & writing & composing & studio work that might make them more efficient in producing instruction materials, but it must be a ton of work and both those guys get busier every year too. However they manage to do it, I'm just happy they do.
    You get one chance to enjoy this day, but if you're doing it right, that's enough.
  • Michael BauerMichael Bauer Chicago, ILProdigy Selmers, Busatos and more…oh my!
    Posts: 1,002
    Bob, Denis never sleeps! He is the Creature that Lurks in the Night!

    Denis is a dynamo. He expends more energy in a day than my body generates in a year.

    Wrembel was working on a comprehensive GJ guitar method several years ago, and I even got to see a bit of it, but then things really took off for him, and I imagine that it will be years, if ever before it is finished.
    I've never been a guitar player, but I've played one on stage.
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