Set up Stories

MichaelHorowitz · December 2006

Whenever I get a new guitar there's usually a prolonged process of trying different set ups until I figure what works best for that particular guitar.

I recently traded my Gibson Johnny Smith for a Dupot Vielle reserve. It's actually the first guitar I've had that was built in the true Selmer style. I've been playing a Favino for a number of years. Favinos are quite a bit different then Selmers: bigger body, extreme neck pitch, more full bodied sound, etc.

Before that I owned a Michael Dunn guitar which is also a fairly idiosyncratic design.

So it's been fun seeing what the Dupont VR will and won't do. The defining feature of the Dupont VR is it's ultra thin top. That makes it extremely loud and responsive. Also sort of wet and a bit harsher then my Favino. But it allows you to use fairly light string tensions (lower action and/or lighter strings) and still get a lot of sound.

I originally went for a high action light strings set up (about 3.5mm w/Argentine 1510s). I'm used to pretty high action so it wasn't that hard for me to play...but the sound actually wasn't that good. Like a lot of thin topped guitars, the VR actually "locks up" if you put too much tension on it (via high action and/or heavy strings). It lost it's sustain...to the point that every note starts to be more of a banjo like plink. All attack, fast decay.

I took the action down to about 3mm...the top opened up again but I found the light 1510 strings to be a little to loose and buzzy for my taste. I then put on heavier strings (Argentine 1510MF)...and again, because of the increased tension the top started to lock up. Also, it was a little too hard to play.

So I took the action down to around 2.5mm. Bingo! That height with the 1510MF strings provided the ideal compromise of sound and playability. Incidentally, I've heard that this is exactly how Bireli sets up the Dupont VR that he's used on the last several Gypsy Project CDs and DVDs. Seems to work great for this guitar. But I must admit, I'm shocked to be playing a guitar with action this low.

My Favino has about 3.5mm-4mm action and I play with Argentine 1510s. The Favino just really doesn't like lower action...it really dies if I take it down. Probably because it has a thicker top...it just wants a little more tension.

Anyway, just thought I'd share some of my experiences. Ultimately every guitar is different, so I think everybody needs to do a little this to find what works best for their guitar.

Happy Holidays!

-Michael

Josh Hegg · December 2006

I have a Dupont MD-50B and find the same thing. I had the action at about 3.5 and just recently lowered it to 2.5 and I love it. I play the 1510MF strings. I loved the guitar before and I love it even more now. The tone is great and it plays like a dream. The top on mine is very thin too. As a note: I had that VR and my MD-50B side by side in my living room not long ago and the VR has a little thinner top then my MD-50B. Both guitars are just great!

Cheers,
Josh

pallopenna · December 2006

2.5 mm on the low E?

-Paul

Josh Hegg · December 2006

Yes for me. I know... It's crazy. But these particular guitars just work like that. What made me try the low action was listening to Django. One evening I was listening to him with head phones on. I thought... Man it sounds like he has low action. I have the luxury of being able to build a bridge at any time. So I ran over to my shop and built a bridge and installed it on my Dupont. Bam... I got a tone much closer to what I was hearing in my headphones. Now I tried the same thing with my DG-300... Not the same. Got snappy and lost allot of tone and buzzed.

Cheers,
Josh

Ken Bloom · December 2006

I suspect the differences may have as much to do with the amount of dome the top has as the thickness of the top. On the Charle blueprint, the braces have a 72" radius but I suspect that this is not always the case. In the Collins book, the radiuses specified are different ones. I used the 72" radius with a top that is approximatly .080. My action is at the 3.5mm mark for the treble and closer to 4mm for the bass. The amount of stress that the topis under would have a profound effect on tone and responsiveness. The angle of incidence over the bridge also has a big effect on tone and sustain. I'd be interested to know what the angle of incidence is for the preferred setup of both of the Duponts we're discussing here and see if that is a factor.

Ken Bloom

a · December 2006

micheal,
when you put on the 11s, did it change the tone, or did it just stop the buzzing?
thanks.

MichaelHorowitz · December 2006

a wrote:

micheal,
when you put on the 11s, did it change the tone, or did it just stop the buzzing?
thanks.

It didn't really buzz that much with Argentine 10s at 3mm. Partly because the previous owner had a totally amazing set up done on it. The frets are absolutely perfect, so you can get the action lower then most guitars before it buzzes.

So anyway, buzzing wasn't too much of an issue either way. The 11s definitely changed the tone...it brought a little more bass frequencies back. (That also happened when I used the higher 3.5mm bridge with the 10s.) But even more important the 11 didn't crap out when you hit them hard. The 10s, especially the treble strings, were kind of weak. The 11s in conjunction with the lower bridge could take more of a pounding and still sound good.

Chubby · December 2006

How are you all measuring the action height, at 17th fret, at 12th fret, are you holding down the string at first fret before measuring? Also what is the height of string at first fret? I'm trying to set up a Dupont I just got in last week.