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Gypsy Jazz Genealogy

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  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Since none of the names have been published elsewhere if its all the same I'd rather not say. It's invasive and since I'm acquainted with both I don't want to be the one to let the cat out of the bag.

    Of course, Ted. I thought that might be the situation, but it was worth asking anyway in case you were at liberty to say. Thanks for all the great information - a fascinating subject, indeed.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    if it helps Ben, they all have very typical names like Jean, Robert, Marc, etc...
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    So what's Denis Chang's real name?
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    klaatu wrote:
    So what's Denis Chang's real name?

    Menashe Rabinowitz. Who'd of thought?
  • MitchMitch Paris, Jazz manouche's capital city!✭✭✭✭ Di Mauro, Lebreton, Castelluccia, Patenotte, Gallato
    Hi,

    Ted please allow me to make a few additions or corrections :

    - Joseph had also famous son, Kuik that looked exaclty like him.

    - Levis Adel does not use the name Reinhardt but Adel Baumgartner, he's the grandson of Micette, one of Lousson's daughter. I met also two other sons of Lousson : Kouloun and Gagoug. gagoug lke the song, as Choti is another daughter of Lousson.

    - Babik had 9 children : I know the names of David, Junior, Alison and the elder is "Che"

    - Steven Reinhardt never claimed to be the son of Angelo (?) but his nephew. Just looking at him can tell is not his son whereas Raangy is the pure copy of his father !

    - Dallas... well when Bella Mayer separated from Django she met another guy and took his name, Baumgartner. I believe Dallas ancesters come from that second marriage and not from Lousson. This is not 100% shure... Having met a few members from the Lousson family, you can tell it is not the same "education"...

    - Yorgui's real first name, christian name, was chosen according to the stadium close by where his family lived... an ancient medieval name but like Ted I prefer to respect his private life

    - Now about the aliases... the reason is simple and believe me, I got this from manouche people themselves... When gypsy woman gives birth she declares herself as a single mother in order to have more social welfare... so the kids for the administration receive a christian first name and their mother's last name. But later they have a nickname and use their father's last name.

    Here are some first names of people you know :
    Biréli : Pierre
    Babik and Boulou : Jean-Jacques
    Elios : Elie
    Matelo : Pierre-Jean (Baro later took his first name because "you understand, I'm the elder")
    Tchan-Tchou : Paul
    Stochelo : Isaac
    Romane : Patrick
    Tchavolo : Jean-Paul (not so shure for this one)

    Ted has given a good explanation and this helps to understand why they all claim to be "cousin" as the definition of cousin is wider than ours.
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    klaatu wrote:
    So what's Denis Chang's real name?

    Menashe Rabinowitz. Who'd of thought?

    :)

    So does that mean Cookie Monster is available? I plan to take the name, when I get rich and famous - just don't want to step on any toes.
    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    klaatu wrote:
    So what's Denis Chang's real name?

    Menashe Rabinowitz. Who'd of thought?

    :)

    So does that mean Cookie Monster is available? I plan to take the name, when I get rich and famous - just don't want to step on any toes.

    Menashe Rabinowitz is Hebrew for Cookie Monster. Sorry.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Oh, great. Well that's taken. That's it, I'm going to aramaic. :)
    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    Hey Mitch,

    Thank you for the corrections. They are most appreciated!
    Mitch wrote:
    - Joseph had also famous son, Kuik that looked exaclty like him.

    I totally forgot about Kuik. I wonder if he's still around?
    Mitch wrote:
    - Levis Adel does not use the name Reinhardt but Adel Baumgartner, he's the grandson of Micette, one of Lousson's daughter. I met also two other sons of Lousson : Kouloun and Gagoug. gagoug lke the song, as Choti is another daughter of Lousson.

    Ahh you're right. I should've remembered this.

    - Babik had 9 children : I know the names of David, Junior, Alison and the elder is "Che"

    - Steven Reinhardt never claimed to be the son of Angelo (?) but his nephew. Just looking at him can tell is not his son whereas Raangy is the pure copy of his father !
    Mitch wrote:
    - Dallas... well when Bella Mayer separated from Django she met another guy and took his name, Baumgartner. I believe Dallas ancesters come from that second marriage and not from Lousson. This is not 100% shure... Having met a few members from the Lousson family, you can tell it is not the same "education"...

    Yes, this rings a bell. When I first heard the story it was a long time ago. So if this is true, it would make Dallas a descendent of Bella Mayer. What is the relation of Dallas' grandmother, Kali?

    Are any of Lousson's family playing?
    Mitch wrote:
    - Now about the aliases... the reason is simple and believe me, I got this from manouche people themselves... When gypsy woman gives birth she declares herself as a single mother in order to have more social welfare... so the kids for the administration receive a christian first name and their mother's last name. But later they have a nickname and use their father's last name.

    Ahh, very interesting. I didn't know this! Is this a modern phenomena? I thought it was strictly absent fathers. Django & Joseph never went back to Weiss.

    Cheers!

    Ted

    PS: I'm coming back to Paris in early winter.
  • MitchMitch Paris, Jazz manouche's capital city!✭✭✭✭ Di Mauro, Lebreton, Castelluccia, Patenotte, Gallato
    Hi Ted,

    Please let me know when you'll be in Paris !

    About Kuik I think he's dead now but he has a least one son that looks like Joseph, he's not a player though.

    Sorry I dont' tknow about Dallas' grandmother Kali.

    About mLousson's descendants, appart from Levis, I just heard about Gagoug playing piano and guitar but only for himself... I'd like to hear him!

    The social welfare trick I think must have taken place after the war when Social Security was created.
    But the first name / nickame is not related to that of course. Until 1901 in France you had to be registered on the Catholic Church archives so you had to bear a christian name.
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