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Gypsy Jazz Genealogy

MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
edited January 2014 in History Posts: 5,891
People always ask me is Jimmy Rosenberg Stochelo's brother? Are the Rosenberg trio all brothers? Is Bireli Lagrene Django's grandson?This chart, which was published in the Dutch Quintette news letter should help answer some of those questions.

BTW, does anyone know the relation of Henri Piotto to Django? The chart has a line signifying some relationship. Maybe they where in-laws? I know that Henri played with Django some, but I never got the story on their familial relation.

Enjoy!

'm
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  • SoulShadeSoulShade NW Ohio, USANew
    Posts: 56
    Outstanding, thanks Michael! -s
  • Bob HoloBob Holo Moderator
    Posts: 1,250
    Hey Mr. Ethnomusicologist... ;-)

    You know what would be really cool to see (maybe the inside back cover of Vol3?)

    A musical genealogy. I don't know if it would be possible - you'd be in a better place to know if the learning style is mentor-based or "the community teaches the child" but the schools of playing and how they evolve is really interesting... could also be really deep and complex - maybe more of a paper than a chart... so I don't know how much economic motive there would be to spur the creation of it. For instance, your primary influence was your initial study with Fapy. I'm guessing Mathieu's initial study with (well, grew up around, but I guess that's studying) Schmitts. Stochelo & Paulus and many of the gents in that area studied at least some under Waso Grunholz. Sebastien & Jeremie are very much into the Eastern European artists - Bratch(sp?) & such. I don't know... maybe something like that would be too complex to be meaningful... the purpose being a more intuitive understanding of the flow of ideas and how/why they evolved the way they did. I've never asked Adrien or Rocky who their early gypsy influences are but I know they're both pretty rabid "Wes-o-philes" and you can hear that in their playing - Robin Nolan's too... lots of Wes in him but also a lot of blues and "British-Invasion" rockers. (Beatles/Stones/Who..) Andreas is a raging Benson-o-phile, but I don't know where he began his study of GJ. Gonzalo took a really solid background in electric blues & rock ala SRV/Winters Brothers/Hendrix and added 4th-wave GJ modern school to it and has brewed up a uniquely soulful and individual sound... etc...
    You get one chance to enjoy this day, but if you're doing it right, that's enough.
  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    Posts: 5,891
    That would be an interesting project....if you'll run DjangoBooks for a year I'd be happy to go and do the research! :D
  • Bob HoloBob Holo Moderator
    Posts: 1,250
    If you resurrect Busato to build guitars for me for a year, I'll do it...

    So perhaps it isn't feasible. Well, it is, but we'd have to raise the dead and get me to go back to running a "business" ... and I think both of those are equally unlikely ;-)
    You get one chance to enjoy this day, but if you're doing it right, that's enough.
  • LeonLeon New
    Posts: 1
    People always ask me is Jimmy Rosenberg Stochelo's brother? Are the Rosenberg trio all brothers? Is Bireli Lagrene Django's grandson?This chart, which was published in the Dutch Quintette news letter should help answer some of those questions.

    BTW, does anyone know the relation of Henri Piotto to Django? The chart has a line signifying some relationship. Maybe they where in-laws? I know that Henri played with Django some, but I never got the story on their familial relation.

    Enjoy!

    'm

    Great chart, very helpful.

    I have the same question about Maurice Ferret - any relation to the Ferret Brothers?

    Btw, I am new to the forum (great site btw) and while I have always enjoyed this music never made a concerted effort to study the history or delve much beyond the Django recordings. But now I find myself deeply immersed in the music and looking for as much info as I can find.
  • MitchMitch Paris, Jazz manouche's capital city!✭✭✭✭ Di Mauro, Lebreton, Castelluccia, Patenotte, Gallato
    Posts: 159
    Hi Guys,

    Well it's funny Bob I've been working about that musical genealogy for almost ten years now...
    I called it "Cercles manouches"...
    Well "working" maybe overrated but I have notes on that and I am constantly thinking of "school identification when I hear a new player.
    Like "who's in the steps of Matelo, who's in the steps of Tchan-Tchou, Stochelo, Benson, etc..."
    People in France like to put a label on people, trends... etc. It's rather a default than a quality by the way.

    Anyway defining the "school" of a player can be simple if he had one or several teachers but at the end all musicians are fed with multiple influences.
    Benoît Convert learned with the 100 % roots style Felix brothers and now is putting some Pat Metheny stuff in his playing, as a representant of the "new school of gypsy jazz"...
    Also, being in Paris it's easier to identify these trends by seeing with whom the great players tend to play and hang out. Samois is good for that too regarding the foreign players.

    But I should be able to go further in these analysis and share them pretty soon...
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,660
    After we finished jamming last night on Lulu Swing, Steve Normandin asked me what relation Lulu Reinhardt is to Django, and I didn't know. Unfortunately, this genealogy does not answer that. Does anyone know? Lulo Reinhardt is said to be a grandnephew, but I can't find any biographical info on Lulu.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,660
    Wow, that's really interesting, Ted, and far more information than I had expected. Just out of curiosity, what is Yorgui's real name, and Moreno's also?

    "Django's first son Lousson had 15 children ..." Well, as Groucho once said about someone similar, "I like my cigar, but I take it out once in a while!"
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,660
    Since none of the names have been published elsewhere if its all the same I'd rather not say. It's invasive and since I'm acquainted with both I don't want to be the one to let the cat out of the bag.

    Of course, Ted. I thought that might be the situation, but it was worth asking anyway in case you were at liberty to say. Thanks for all the great information - a fascinating subject, indeed.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,116
    if it helps Ben, they all have very typical names like Jean, Robert, Marc, etc...
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