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Brozman's take on La Pompe

trumbologytrumbology San FranciscoNew
edited February 2006 in Gypsy Rhythm Posts: 124
found this elsewhere online. Just posting it here for the heck of it.

http://www.guitarseminars.com/ubb/Forum ... 01800.html

Scott Jacobs
Moderator
posted 07-03-2002

"I have seen web tutorials describing how to play the "boom chick" by playing the 6th string only on the "boom" and playing the rest of the chord on the "chick" part.... Bob [Brozman], in class, taught a different way to do this, which certainly sounds more 'manouche' to my ears. He teaches playing the 'boom' part by slicing with a down-stroke through all of the strings followed by a quick left handed mute release. The "chick" is played in the same manner except that it is slightly delayed in time to make it swing. This is accomplished by either 'digging in' by pressing firmly into the strings on this second down-stroke thus physically forcing a slight delay in this second chord. An alternative method that he teaches is to swing your right arm in a direction away from the bridge. I prefer the second method."

[this bit was also interesting, from Bob himself this time:]

Bob Brozman
Member
posted 06-29-2002

Hey swingin' peeeples---

I'll be giving a workshop in basic swing rhythm for people unfamiliar with swing, and also be available for swing jamming. Caution: I have been really into playing Besame Mucho, but in THREE, then "flipping it" ---what a fun groove it becomes!

Comments

  • CampusfiveCampusfive Los Angeles, CA✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 98
    I jammed with Bob at the National Booth at the Winter 05 NAMM show and he did that bit with Besame Mucho. I had started out jamming with Mike Dowling and playing solely swing stuff. Bob came over and joined us and moved the jam into some more "interesting" stuff - which was cool, but totally put me out of my element. He does seem to really know his stuff.
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    Posts: 615
    trumbology wrote:
    found this elsewhere online. Just posting it here for the heck of it.

    http://www.guitarseminars.com/ubb/Forum ... 01800.html

    Scott Jacobs
    Moderator
    posted 07-03-2002

    "I have seen web tutorials describing how to play the "boom chick" by playing the 6th string only on the "boom" and playing the rest of the chord on the "chick" part.... Bob [Brozman], in class, taught a different way to do this, which certainly sounds more 'manouche' to my ears. He teaches playing the 'boom' part by slicing with a down-stroke through all of the strings followed by a quick left handed mute release. The "chick" is played in the same manner except that it is slightly delayed in time to make it swing. This is accomplished by either 'digging in' by pressing firmly into the strings on this second down-stroke thus physically forcing a slight delay in this second chord. An alternative method that he teaches is to swing your right arm in a direction away from the bridge. I prefer the second method."

    [this bit was also interesting, from Bob himself this time:]

    Bob Brozman
    Member
    posted 06-29-2002

    Hey swingin' peeeples---

    I'll be giving a workshop in basic swing rhythm for people unfamiliar with swing, and also be available for swing jamming. Caution: I have been really into playing Besame Mucho, but in THREE, then "flipping it" ---what a fun groove it becomes!

    Hey Guys,

    It's really important to understand that just because someone is talking about swing rhythm, it doesn't mean they are talking about la pompe - which is exclusive to Gypsy Jazz. There was an entire generation of hot rhythmmen in American jazz (most began as banjo players -- but names like Gerry McAdams, Bernard Addison, Frank Federico, Carmen Mastren, Kress, Condon, Bland and many others were playing their own rhythm, 4/4, some with the occassional accidental upstroke. Still, I read lots of players lumping pompe in with this style and it's not correct. It's important in understanding how to play gypsy rhythm that it is something different than the American style, which is what Brozman et al are referring to.

    Best,

    TG
  • Mac HackMac Hack San Diego, CANew
    Posts: 44
    Hello,

    I just found this thread. As the author of that thread and forum moderator I'd like to point out that the IGS Guitar Forum started out as a way for those of us who had attended www.guitarseminars.com to keep in touch and share with each other our learning thoughout the year. IGS (International Guitar Seminars) provided me with my first real instruction (like lots of other folks I had been primarily self taught) and inspired me to explore other musical styles. The IGS Guitar forum has been invaluable to me in that, like this forum, it has been a place where I can ask questions and expect honest helpful answers. Incidentally, I first attended IGS in August 2001 primarily to improve my slide guitar skills and had had no interest in learning to play swing. Now, years later as an IGS Guitar Forum moderator, I'm continually reminded that musicianship involves a never evending quest of self learning and self challenge. I continue to be seduced by swing and all its variations and periodically check this forum for inspiration. Recently while madly in search of a fix, I was disheartened to read this on Djangology's site:

    I am going to Samois 2006 this summer and I am still playing guitar but I am not playing as much. I have been getting into tango dancing lately instead. I haven't benefitted in any way by sharing my guitar learning experience. When I first started this project I thought that someone else would start a similar weblog and/or someone would share ideas with me and make it fun to learn more but that never happened. All that happened was that other people resisted even more to show me stuff and I found it even harder to learn from others. And so ends Djangology.Net. If I continue to have an online presence it will only be in the form of a "sonicbids" band press kit.
    http://djangology.net/

    This kind of thing really saddens me and I implore all of those who really have something to share to remember their own never ending musical quest and to share with all the humilty and grace that is inherent in said endeavor.

    Having said all of that, I should also point out that I was the one guy in Bob Brozman's class who couldn't get the hang of the swing rhythm that he was teaching. Luckily, I was able to later listen to my minidisc recordings to get the hang of it. Or so I thought. I worked up a half dozen swing tunes to sing and play at IGS 2002 and it was only after a nice jam with Mike Dowling, Orville Johnson, Pat Donahue, and Brozman did Bob point out to me that while I had the rhythm right I was instead accenting the 2nd and 4th beats by swinging my arm away from the bridge. D'oh! Apparently, I had somehow reversed his instruction in my head. It took me a couple of weeks to reverse it again. Several instructional books later and after watching all the guitarists in the Bireli video I don't swing my arm like I used to. But what Bob taught in class did help me to get my head wrapped around swing rhythm and to help me to learn what I was hearing on recordings. If anything this story should help to illustrate how difficult this style is to learn. And I'll always be grateful to Bob Brozman for his instruction and friendship over the years.

    We never stop learning and I continue to be amazed by all the rhythmic variation found within this style. And, of course, I'm highly anticipating the "Gypsy Rhythm" series from Michael Horowitz.

    --Scott Jacobs
    "On apprend tous les jours." - Stéphane Grappelli
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,049
    i wonder why djangology is closing his thing.... who are the people resisting to show him stuff.... this forum alone is resources-a-plenty.....
  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,911
    dennis wrote:
    .... this forum alone is resources-a-plenty.....

    Exactly...I'm sure Jon's not going to disappear, but when he started out there was no Djangobooks Forum! Enjoy the retirement, my friend!

    Best,
    Jack.
  • Mac HackMac Hack San Diego, CANew
    Posts: 44
    Jack wrote:
    Exactly...I'm sure Jon's not going to disappear, but when he started out there was no Djangobooks Forum!

    Yep, and when I started the thread that trumbology posted, there was no Djangobooks Forum.
    "On apprend tous les jours." - Stéphane Grappelli
  • trumbologytrumbology San FranciscoNew
    Posts: 124
    dennis wrote:
    this forum alone is resources-a-plenty.....

    When first looking at the site Jon created, I guessed (and still assume) he spent many hours posting content, getting the look and feel down, to say nothing the practice that is behind it all. I am in awe, no kidding. I'm sorry Jon ended up frustrated...Please Jon, bring your posts on over to Djangobooks and the Django Swing Page! Maybe Michael would even create a "Djangology's Learning Lab" section like Archtop Eddy has.

    I'm guilty of forgetting to check blogs and band sites on a regular basis, but I do check the the two forums religiously.

    Occassionally, I'll admit, there are obnoxious posts (though I've seen so much worse...ahem...Charlie Christian forum...ahem).

    But really, it's not a bad second choice to running your own blog to post your ideas here. I know either forum could vanish tomorrow, but I don't really expect this to happen, and if I wrote something that I felt was really valuable, I'd save a copy on my hard drive (so far, I haven't had to do this).

    So let Michael and Zoot worry about maintaining the sites, and reach a wider audience...whad'dya think?

    Neil
  • trumbologytrumbology San FranciscoNew
    Posts: 124
    trumbology wrote:
    Maybe Michael would even create a "Djangology's Learning Lab" section like Archtop Eddy has.

    I meant a "corner" or forum -- I know Archtop is running a learning lab.

    n
  • trumbologytrumbology San FranciscoNew
    Posts: 124
    trumbology wrote:
    I meant a "corner" or forum -- I know Archtop is running a learning lab.

    n

    Do'ah! I made a mistake while trying to correct a previous mistake...for some reason this site's "edit post" feature isn't accessible to me today.

    I meant to say Archtop ISN'T running a learning lab. Not that I expect anyone is still reading my ridiculous posts at this point.

    n
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