Fret level or just action/relief?

Tele295

My Gitane DG300 has recently developed some buzzing on the G and D strings in the 7th-10th fret area (G string string buzzing actually extends a little lower). I've played the heck out of this guitar for the last year and a half, but there are no noticeable fret divots. Buzz exists even with new strings, more prevalent when I pick hard. Action is currently about 3-3.5 mm at 12th fret. Argie 11 strings have been replaced, but to no avail.

Is it time for a routine fret level? Or perhaps I should let the truss rod out a little bit, as sort of a summertime adjustment and reassess when the seasons change? There doesn't appear to be any neck-joint hump.

periclimenes

I had a similar problem on my guitar, and it turned out to be two frets working their way out of the fingerboard (coming loose, I guess). The guitar tech just pounded them in and secured them and the buzzing stopped. Not sure if this will help your problem at all, but it is something to think about. The cost was certainly way less than a fret level!

Jeff Moore

Have you looked straight down one edge of the fret board for warp or excessive relief?
If you have a 18" straight edge you can lay it on all the frets (sometimes you want to stay off the zero fret if you've kept it high) and slide paper between the edge of the straight edge and the frets.
If you like a small dip (relief) in the neck you have to account for this.
I wouldn't hesitate to use the truss rod, but go slow and test to see what your achieving, especially if this is not something you do often.

These suggestions are just the usual. A loose fret will give you grief but you can see it has lifted pretty easily. Put something heavy behind the neck and hold the rest of the fret (so it isn't shaken out) as you hit it with a wooden handle. Doesn't take much of a whack to reset it, they're pretty maleable.

Tele295

Doesn't appear to be any high frets, but I don't have a good straight edge to check. Since I have gig this afternoon, I don't want to mess with it too much. I put a Fender heavy pick under each of the bridge feet, and that got most of the buzz out. Not quite sure what is going on, but I will have to make do for the next week or so until there's a break in my scheudle where it can go to the repairman.

I've heard of some violinists who have different bridges for summer and winter. Any find need for the same with GJ guitars?

Jeff Moore

Yeah
My guitars change with the season and sometimes they seem to just change with the planets.
I've struggled to keep the humidity steady, but they change some anyway.

I build my own bridges but with a small herd of guitars, it gets tedious and I usually settle for a "to short" bridge and shim as needed. I don't notice a sound difference if I get the shim right over the strut beneath the top.
I find the curve under the bridges change and of course the necks will move over time.

One of mine is real old. It seems to stay put really well.
The two regular gigging guitars are a slow but constant source of maintenance, over a couple years time anyway. One has a LOT of carbon fiber that I put in the neck. That neck is bullet proof - no change.
I have another luthier built with one square rod of carbon fiber. It came warped more than any guitar I've ever had. After some neck work, it is a fabulous guitar but will need a fret job to play right, not enough carbon I guess?

I don't like truss rods cause they can only straighten a neck - almost. The stress they apply isn't evenly distributed and the stress of a warping neck isn't evenly distributed either. But they are quick.

If you've got a truss, use it slowly, and check what happens. Nearly always a 1/8 -1/4 turn is all it takes to get the best neck a truss rod can give. I've turned some more than that, but after a guitar has lived a year or more with humidification in your climate and you get the neck adjusted once, the next adjustment will be small. Remember they go both ways - tighten - loosen. Tighten to the right and it'll take the dip out. It will not help if you have hump at the neck joint. To me, that's a refret - neck level affair that I no longer care to do.
The pro I use is just so much better at it than me, but $400 or so, and worth it.

If your not regulating your axes humidity, any thing you do to fix the playability is quite temporary.

It's gotta have a stable climate in which to live, to have a fighting chance of reamaining stable. Wood = sponge. Keep it 40-60% relative humidity! Get a "Taylor" passive humidity gauge - $6 at any Ace Hdwre. Put one in every room with a guitar your hoping will play well. Get used to reading the gauge once in a while. When the gauge gets under 40, buy a humidifier. I don't case my guitars but the "in the case things" might work? Never tried it.
Winter house heating and desert like climates murder unhumidified guitars.
In an upper midwest climate, a forced air heater will get you down to 10% relative humidity real quick without doing something to change it. Wood (rocking chairs, cabinet doors, and guitars) will change shape - period - in that climate, and will not really resume the former shape either when the humidity comes back.

Tele295

Jeff Moore wrote:

I find the curve under the bridges change

Does the arch of the bridge start to flatten over time? That would explanin the buzzing on the middle strings only, as it no longer matches the radius of the fretboard.

Heretic

Tele295:

Are you still using the original Gitane ebony bridge? I would think that they are so strong that they wouldn't flatten out.

Tele295

Yeah, it's still the original stairstep bridge. I wouldn't think it would flatten out either, but I'm completely stumped as to why it would start buzzing now. Top doesn't look like its sinking, either.

Ian Rossiter

I don't suppose the grooves in the bridge have deepened,have they?
Just a thought. I'm willing to bet though ,it's a humidity issue. Has the top sunk at all??

Jeff Moore

I can't imagine the bridge itself changing shape enough to matter for any reason.

The shape changing I see is the top flattening and the neck doing whatever it wants, but usually bowing to the tension of the strings.
Often in these forums I've taken heat for recommending a straight edge for checking frets, but it works for me. One thing though, is that I aim for a totally straight neck - flat - every fret on the same curved plane. Most folks have and want neck relief. Like 5 to 15 thousanths (sp?) of an inch down in the middle of the length of the fretboard.
If you use a straightedge you can slide regular paper under the straight edge where it is contacting every fret (or not). You can also use card stock (business cards) and you'll have to if there's relief in your neck, because obviously the straight edge is straight but your attempting to find any frets that are low or high on a slightly curved plane.

Look too, if the 3-4th strings are low compared to the 2nd and 5th right on the bridge. If so, your bridge was made wrong (not common). I'm not capable of describing the curve of the top of my bridges as compared to the curve (radius) of the fretboard except to say that the top of my (and any) bridge is nearer straight in comparison to the radius of the fretboard because the lower the string needs more room to rotate without touching the fretboard. Folks on these forums are often talking about how the high E on their axe is 2mm above the frets at the 12th fret and the low E is 3.5 or so.

The net is that each larger (heavier) string needs to be farther off the fretboard. This necessarily results in the top of the bridge being closer to straight than the arc (radius) of the fretboard. Knowing this, look at the height of your strings and if the 3rd and 4th aren't a little higher than #2, that may be your problem.

Some folks can look down a fretboard and not see a hump where the neck meets the body, even when its there. This hump is real common. If you want to double check your eye, take it into a guitar shop and have the guy look for you.
I'm just guessing, but your problem is solvable and I think people on this thread have mentioned all the possibilities. One or more are your problem.
If your frets are level, the neck is straight and the bridge high enough for all the strings. It won't buzz. I'm not chastising but just limiting the problems down to the minimum. Everyone has to chase down neck problems and I've missed many diagnostic simplicities myself.

I've only bought two professional re-fret jobs in my 45 years of playing guitars, but I bet you'd be thrilled with the result if you can get the dollars to do it. Whether the neck job costs a fraction of the cost of your guitar or half the price of your guitar, I don't think matters. It's YOUR guitar and it'll sound and play better than it ever sounded and played before.

It took me 18 years before I had the nerve to start doing my own fret levels and refrets. My jobs result in very level frets but are still clumsy looking compared to the pros. Never the less, the result is wonderful for playability. A decade later I started adding carbon fiber to my necks. It looks pretty bad from the back, but the result is a neck that never ever warps. Ever. I quit caring how it looked. Customers think its clever and unique or at least they're kind enough to hold the laughter till they're outa site.
If you play guitar long enough you'll have to come to grips with how your gonna maintain the neck and action. an 18" straightedge reveals a lot about your neck real quick. If you haven't maintained the neck and the guitar is even a year old, you'll find out instantly that things aren't what they oughta be with a straighedge. Try the art or office supply nearest you and get the steel one!
It's nice to test and remedy in the thousanths of the inch, but most young folks guitars (the guys at an open mike for instance) are off in the tenths of the inch - real bad. Makes em hard to play or buzzy or both. The other alternative is to play only open chords on the first 4 frets!

Tele295

Top doesn't look like it has sunk, and this problem has only surfaced recently, so I don't think it's the way the bridge was made. Summertime and humidity differences may be the only culprit. Perhaps I should just wait it out, although here on the Pacific Coast, the weather never really changes that much.

With the shim, the action is pretty high, more than 3.5mm of the 12th fret. I can slide my Wegen in ther.