Django-guitars compared to other acoustic guitars

MichaelHorowitz

Stringswinger wrote:

Michael,

I think that on the Sara Lazarus album, Bireli was playing his blond Favino. I have seen video from that session and it appears to be the Favino (which sounds great to my ears).

Cheers,

Marc

www.hotclubpacific.com

Ah yes....I forgot about that video. I think you're right...he did play the Favino on that one. That explains the more full bodied tone, which is characteristic of Favinos. But usually they're a bit honkey and nasal. But I think he plays with lower then average action these days, so the lack of string tension would probably remove some of the "honk" factor from a Favino.

BTW, Fapy always told me he hated Favinos! ha ha...some people are Selmer guys and some people are Favino guys. But I guess that makes me bi because I like 'em both.

-Michael

(p.s. thanks for lunch!)

MichaelHorowitz

Elliot wrote:

It doesn't seem like it is an incredibly loud guitar either

That's a good point. Is volume the end all of Gypsy guitars?

In the days before amplification, I'd say volume was definitely a priority. But now a days, if you're mostly playing with a pickup or recording, you're better off with a tonally superior guitar then one that is just loud.

Personally, I find a good, light weight, Selmer is great for jams around the campfire. But for recording or playing around the house I prefer the more full bodied Favino guitars...especially the newer ones by J.P. Favino

Michael Bauer

Michael, in the liner notes of Tchan Tchou's CD, the write speculates than he's playing a Joseph di Mauro (the elder) guitar. Have you ever played/heard one?

Also, I have never heard a gypsy f-hole guitar, like an Antoinre di Mauro. You rarely see them played, although I do see photos in books of them quite often. Are they more like American archtops, or do they have that brittle "plinky" :roll: gypsy sound as well?

This is the secon time you have recommended a Favino to me. I think I am going to have to look into it seriously. I don't know about the high action though. My old, arthritic fingers have enough trouble with low action.

MichaelHorowitz

[quote="Michael Bauer"]Michael, in the liner notes of Tchan Tchou's CD, the write speculates than he's playing a Joseph di Mauro (the elder) guitar.[/quote]

A respected historian told me it was a Favino....apparently both Bousquet and Tchan Tchou ordered Favinos at the same time. But who knows....he could be playing just about anything. They even suggest in the liner notes that he may be playing a resonator guitar....which it does actually sound like sometimes!

Can anyone figure what guitar he's holding in photo for the La Gitane CD?

La Gitane, Gypsy Legend" border="0"
width="100">

diMauros often had non-standard tailipieces so my first guess is that it's not a diMauro. But maybe they did use standard ones sometimes.

Nevertheless, a Jacques Favino with high action, played hard, close to the bridge, sounds pretty much the same as Tchan Tchou or Bousquet.

[quote] Have you ever played/heard one?
[/quote]

Yes, I played an oval hole dimauro all the time when living in A'dam. One of my friends Reinier Voet had one. It was his first Gypsy guitar and he kept it at the place I was staying so I played it a lot. You can also here Jimmy Rosenberg playing the same guitar on this CD:

The One and Only"
border="0" width="100">





Jimmy
Rosenberg, Angelo Debarre, and Bireli Lagrene

The
One and Only

I believe he's even holding it in the cover photo. But it's Reinier's Di Mauro. A good, solid Gypsy guitar. The Di Mauros may be the only good deals left in vintage Gypsy guitars. But usually not as good as Favinos....which is what Reinier traded up to.


[quote]Also, I have never heard a gypsy f-hole guitar, like an Antoinre di Mauro. You rarely see them played, although I do see photos in books of them quite often. Are they more like American archtops, or do they have that brittle "plinky" :roll: gypsy sound as well?[/quote]

You see them from time to time:







Mon pote le Gitan"
border="0" width="100">





Dorado played an F hole Di Mauro way back...and I think Hono Winterstein has been using one lately. But in general, they don't seem very popular. I never played a real one...but the copies I've played didn't impress me. I'd stick with the oval hole Di Mauros.



[quote]This is the secon time you have recommended a Favino to me. I think I am going to have to look into it seriously. I don't know about the high action though. My old, arthritic fingers have enough trouble with low action.[/quote]

In general, most Favinos seem to sound best with higher action. But you can always experiment....

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Michael Bauer

I owned a ca. 1930 National Steel body for a long time, and I think Tchan Tchou's guitar sounds too "woody" to be one of those.

For some reason, di Mauro guitars interest me. I'm not sure $4000-5000 is a bargain, but I guess compared to Selmers, Busatos, and Favinos, they are, and they do seem to have some gypsy heritage. The heart-shaped oval holes are just different enough to be attractive. I was hoping Tchan Tchou really was playing a di Mauro, since Jacques has one right now. I'm not sure what a new Favino goes for, but maybe I should look. Or are the older ones better?

Thanks for the info on the CD's. More to add to my most-wanted list! Thanks also for the rest of the info. You are a font of knowledge!

MichaelHorowitz

[quote="Michael Bauer"]I owned a ca. 1930 National Steel body for a long time, and I think Tchan Tchou's guitar sounds too "woody" to be one of those.[/quote]

I don't think it's actually a reso....but if you pick hard right by the bridge it can sure sound like it.

[quote]I'm not sure what a new Favino goes for, but maybe I should look. Or are the older ones better?[/quote]

JP Favino will custom build you a new one for about $7-$8K. But that # is increasing every day as his waiting list goes up and value of the dollar goes down. But keep in mind, the new Favinos are very different. You can see and hear the Favino heritage, but he's building a very different guitar.

During the late 80s through the mid 90s, he was building a transitional model. It had the large body width of his father's guitars, but about inch less in depth. I've been playing one of these "transitional" ones for about 4 years now:

Favino #1024
1990

Owner: Michael Horowitz

Robin Nolan also plays pretty much the same exact guitar, but with an oval hole (when he's not playing the Cigano...haha)

Favino #1001 1988

Owner: Robin Nolan




Robin's guitar actually has a pretty prestigious pedigree. Stochelo played it in the Django Legacy video, Jimmy Rosenberg played it on the Frank Vignola DVD and also on the CD he did with Ola Kvernberg.

In general, these Favino guitars are nice and dry with a very warm but snappy high end. I love them, but you won't sound like Tchan Tchou playing one of these. They are definitely Gypsy Neveau...more modern sounding.

The newer JP Favinos (late 90s to present) are an even bigger departure from the old Jacques design. Interesting, he totally abandoned one of the distinguishing features of Favinos, the jumbo body size. His standard Gypsy model basically has Selmer body proportions. I've got one here right now:

Favino #2002 2001

Owner: Michael Horowitz



And Ted Gottsegen has been playing one for a number of years:

Favino #1115 2004

Owner: Ted Gottsegen




The great thing about these guitars is that they are probably the most playable Gypsy guitars out there. Something about the scale length, neck angle, body size, etc makes them play like butter even with higher action. They are also hands down the driest guitars I've played....very direct sound. And that really makes them cut in a jam...the one I have is louder then my Dupont VR which I never thought was possible. I think JP's huge amount of Lutherie experience really shows with these....well done.

Ted recently got this one from JP which has a SMALLER body size then a Selmer. How about that for a breaking Favino stereotypes!

[img]http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_ted0407001_153.jpg[/img]

Strangely, it sounds very old school. Kinda like Tchan Tchou. Who would have thought?


[quote]You are a font of knowledge![/quote]

No, just a blabber mouth geek. Always get a second opinion!

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asd123321

So are the Cigano gj 10s still in the excessive bass category? The recording of Josche Stephen on the Gj15 was so harsh, is seemed to me to need silk and steel strings

BluesBop Harry

I payed a visit to Jacques a couple of weeks ago and played the Dimauros...They were really cool...but the one I liked the best was the Bucolo...that square neck, very comfortable and serious bark.
The "gypsy mistery" was cool too.
He'll be back in a couple of weeks with something new...

MichaelHorowitz

asd123321 wrote:

So are the Cigano gj 10s still in the excessive bass category? The recording of Josche Stephen on the Gj15 was so harsh, is seemed to me to need silk and steel strings

Saga improved the neck angle on the Ciganos...that really helped with excessive bassiness that was characteristic of some of their earlier models. They're surprisingly loud and make a great student and/or "no worries" jam guitar. The tone lacks the complexity of finer instruments and you can't get the ultra playable setup either. But they're close enough for casual playing...

kimmo

Michael Horowitz wrote:

That's the Hahl Gitano....I'd really like to try one of those. Unfortunately there's none floating around these parts.

I tried that model (darkened cedar-top, d-hole, lots of gold and glimmer) in Hahls stand in Samois in 2003. It was a great guitar, but I was a bit surprised that it had 012 bronze strings on. When I mentioned that in the forum, I think it was Nick who said that Bireli played his Hahl also with bronzes.

Other Hahl-guitars were strung with Argies, so this was a feature of that particular model.

Michael Horowitz wrote:

...you can hear that it's a very balanced, full bodied instrument. But has enough kick for lead Gypsy playing. I think it's the right guitar for him....his recordings with the Dupont VR were a little brash in my opinion:

The brashness might also be due to the ultra-heavy compression added in the mixing/mastering board. I've always wondered why they had to sqeeze him so flat in those two first GPs.