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Minor Swing 1937

LaurentLaurent Calgary, Alberta CanadaNew
edited March 2006 in Technique Posts: 34
I have been working on this piece and have been having a lot of trouble with the 4th solo, descending triplet chromatic run (bar 68 )


|----------------3-2-1----0--------|
|-----------------------------4-3---|
|------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------|


|-------------------------------------|-------------1-3/--4-------7---7---|
|2-1-0-------------------------------|----------3-----------------------|
|--------3-2-1---0------------------|------1---------------------------|
|-------------------4-3----2-1-0----|--2-3-----------------------------|
|-------------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------|--------------------------------|



I have been trying to play this with DUD DUD DUD pick strokes. And while I am not having much difficulty getting the rest of the piece up to tempo, I can only get this section up to about 155 bpm, which leads me to believe I may not be playing it right.

Does anyone have any suggestions on this?

Thanks in advance.

L
«1345

Comments

  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,040
    using DUD DUD is way too difficult for this run... it's all straight alternate picking except on string changes u start with a downstroke


    DUD DUD is usually reserved for single string patterns or, if not, any other patterns that will lend itself well to this type of picking

    ie:

    e--7-6-5---------------------------------------------------
    b---------8-5-------------7-5------------------------------
    g--------------6---------------6---------------------------
    d-----------------7-6-5----------7-6-5--------------------
    a-----------------------------------------------------------
    e-----------------------------------------------------------

    hope that helps
  • LaurentLaurent Calgary, Alberta CanadaNew
    edited February 2005 Posts: 34
    dennis wrote:
    using DUD DUD is way too difficult for this run... it's all straight alternate picking except on string changes u start with a downstroke


    Thanks Dennis, you've undoubtedly saved me a lot of time repeating this phrase. When you say "except on string changes" do you mean this run in particular or triplet runs in general?

    If I understand you correctly that makes this run:

    DUD UDU DUD UDU DUD UDU DUD UDU S

    Thanks again for the response.

    L.
  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    Posts: 5,789
    Do you have the Gypsy Picking book? It's picking pattern pattern #9.

    'm
  • LaurentLaurent Calgary, Alberta CanadaNew
    Posts: 34
    Do you have the Gypsy Picking book? It's picking pattern pattern #9.

    'm

    Yes, I do Michael, thanks. That is where I got the original thought that this run required DUD DUD. Pattern #9 is just that.

    Isn't Dennis suggesting that this particular run is different?

    Sorry, perhaps I'm confused. :?

    L
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,040
    michael was referring to the arpeggio example i gave you not the chromatic scale...

    in which the DUD technique lends itself very well to the pattern..

    in general DUD for triplets are preferred but sometimes it is not possible, that chromatic scale is an example of such a case

    when i mean downstroke on string changes, i mean in nearly all cases, regardless of rhythm....

    there are very few instances where u'd start with an upstroke on a new string....

    michael talks about it in his book.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,040
    since we're talking about DUD DUD picking.. i might as well mention 3 note patterns that are not triplets but normal 8th notes which is a very common thing to do in this style:

    e--7-6-5--------------------------
    b----------7-6-5------------------
    g----------------------------------
    d----------------------------------
    a----------------------------------
    e----------------------------------

    if you play this as 8th notes and triplets, the DUD picking still applies and it creates a polyrhythmic feel by accenting the upbeat with a down...

    but another common thing to do (django did and i ve seen gypsies do it) is this

    e--7-6-5--------------------------
    b----------7p6-5------------------
    g----------------------------------
    d----------------------------------
    a----------------------------------
    e----------------------------------

    you pull off from the 7th fret b string to the 6th fret....

    the picking pattern would then be:

    D U D, D pull off U

    if i remember correctly, django does this a lot in "django's tiger"
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,040
    Laurent wrote:
    If I understand you correctly that makes this run:

    DUD UDU DUD UDU DUD UDU DUD UDU S

    Thanks again for the response.

    L.

    no that doesn't look right, like i said, it's all alternate picking, but whenever you change strings, you're going to start with a downstroke regardless of what precedes it so the chromatic portion of that minor swing lick would go like this

    DUD UDU DUD DUD UDU DUD

    so notice from the third triplet grouping to the fourth, there is a double D
  • Posts: 101
    [quote]|----------------3-2-1----0--------|
    |-----------------------------4-3---|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------| [/quote]

    When Mandino Reinhardt shows this lick in his note-for-note video, he plays the 4th note, the E, on the B string.

    So it becomes

    |----------------3-2-1-------------|
    |---------------------------5-4-3---|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|

    He does show this run with alternate picking, given the speed of the run that one change might help it fall into place for you-

    Carter
  • LaurentLaurent Calgary, Alberta CanadaNew
    Posts: 34
    [quote="Carter O`Brien"][quoteSo it becomes

    |----------------3-2-1-------------|
    |---------------------------5-4-3---|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|
    |------------------------------------|

    [/quote]


    Ha! Sometimes you think you so much about the right hand you forget about the left. One could make this change to the second and fifth triplet and they would all be single string triplets, just leaving the last two, but those are going down the strings.

    I have tried the alternating per Dennis's suggesion and it feels much better on the hand, I will try this as well and get back to you.


    Thanks a lot for all the great suggestions and insights!

    L
  • LaurentLaurent Calgary, Alberta CanadaNew
    Posts: 34
    Well, it is definitely alternating pick strokes that works for me for that particular lick. I have ended up going back to my original left hand fingering as I had already had that well practiced. I have now got the whole piece up to 176 bpm and it looks like clear sailing to get the rest of the way.

    Thanks all, for setting me on the right track.

    This is the first time I have worked through one of Django's pieces all the way through. I have been playing Minor Swing for years but have really only noodled around it with natural minor scales, some arpeggios and even (gasp) pentatonic scales. I have found it interesting that Django's solo is always in a different position on the finger board than I have generally found myself playing.

    L
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