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Generational Map

Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
edited November 2012 in History
Hi All,

In order to correctly understand the current state of jazz manouche, it's important that we get a brief, generational family tree. Currently there are four generations of Gypsy Jazz guitarists going back to Django's era. They are as follows:

The first generation are contemporaries of Django, but are limited to those guitarists who were active professionally while he was still alive, but limited to those whose actually recorded during Django's reign. There are guitarists who were indeed active during this period and also recorded, but they simply didn't come into their own to receive what little recognition they got. Tchan-Tchou would be a perfect example. Note: These are not complete lists, general, known players names are used (and some obscure ones as well)

The first generation, early 1930's to the early 1950's: Matelo, Baro, Sarane and Challain Ferret, Eugene Vees, Henri Crolla, Jacques Montagne, Joseph Reinhardt, Gusti Malha, Leo Slab, Lousson Baumgartner, Didi Duprat.

The second generation, mid to late 1950's through the early 1970's: Mondine Garcia, Ninine Garcia, Chatou Garcia, Piton Reinhardt, Spatzo Adel, Niglo Adel, Vivian Villerstein, Maurice Ferret, Joseph Pouville, Tchan-Tchou, Bousquet, Cardi, Schnuckenack Reinhardt, Häns'che Weiss, Romansj, Laro Sollero, Angelo, René Maihles, Babik Reinhardt

The third generation, mid 1970's through the mid to late 1980's - Dorado Schmitt, Tchavolo Schmitt, Mandino Reinhardt, Hono Winterstein, Bireli Lagrene, Mito Loeffler, Titi Winterstein, Romane, Laurent Bajata, Martin Weiss, Traubeli Weiss, Romani Weiss, Mike Reinhardt, Samson Reinhardt, Coco Reinhardt, Tchouta Adel, Jeannot "Titotte" Mahla, Raphael Fays, Fapy Lafertin

The fourth generation, late 1980's to the present: Jimmy Rosenberg, Samson Schmitt, Dino Mehrstein, Yorgui Loeffler, Dallas Baumgartner, Mundine Garcia, Rocky Garcia, Rocky Fallone, Noe Reinhardt, Moreno, Angelo Debarre, David Reinhardt, Mano Drey, Kussi Weiss, Tchocolo Winterstein, Doudou Cuillierre.

Again, this list is by no means exhaustive, just enough to give you an idea as to who came onto the scene at what point. You should also be able to tell, by where the players come from, who their teachers were. You can begin to draw a picture of how the music was handed down through the generations. Comments of questions?

Best,

Ted
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Comments

  • djangologydjangology Portland, OregonModerator Dell Arte Hommage
    This is what I call a killer post Ted. Thanks for posting that without anyone asking. :-)

    It would be really cool to see the same list someday with each persons birth year next to them (or all organized in a linear list with birthdates).

    What events occured in the late 80's that create the point where you draw the line between 3rd and 4th generations? Was it the emergence of the young Stochelo maybe and the dutch players?
    ---
    "I want to party like its 1939!"
  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    yeah...good one ted! i just made it sticky....

    could i add Henri Pioto to the 1st gen and Bamboula Ferret to the 2nd gen.?

    'm
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    yeah...good one ted! i just made it sticky....

    could i add Henri Pioto to the 1st gen and Bamboula Ferret to the 2nd gen.?

    'm

    Add whoever you want - like I said, it wasn't an exhaustive list, but I do think it's important to get as many obscure names up there as possible.
  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Ted,

    Good to have you at the helm, here. I wonder if you'd consider doing a weekly or biweekly biography of some players? It wouldn't have to be exhaustive (though knowing you it probably will be), but something describing what everyone's strong points are, what new facet they've brought to the style, what their essential recordings are, etc.

    It's really far too easy for most people, myself included, to say 'Oh, yeah, I know those guys: Matelo, Baro, Titi, Schnuckenack, Hans'che, Ninine, Bousquet...' without really knowing much about them. I get as many recordings as I can find, but getting background on everyone is much more difficult than learning about Django's hand.

    Something to think about, anyway; after a year or so we'd have a Biographical Dictionary of Gypsy Jazz.

    Best,
    Jack.
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    Hey Jack,
    Jack wrote:
    I wonder if you'd consider doing a weekly or biweekly biography of some players? It wouldn't have to be exhaustive (though knowing you it probably will be), but something describing what everyone's strong points are, what new facet they've brought to the style, what their essential recordings are, etc.

    This is a great idea. So far I've been operating on that method, one decent sized historical post a week or so, but I think this is a good idea, and I'll do my best to accomodate you!
    Jack wrote:
    It's really far too easy for most people, myself included, to say 'Oh, yeah, I know those guys: Matelo, Baro, Titi, Schnuckenack, Hans'che, Ninine, Bousquet...' without really knowing much about them. I get as many recordings as I can find, but getting background on everyone is much more difficult than learning about Django's hand.

    You're right, of course, and it's a great idea, I'll start with next week.

    What would be ideal (and this many be costly for some folks so I understand if there is apprehension on some peoples parts about taking part in this) would be for everyone to buy one CD (if they don't already have one) featuring the "artist of the week", that way, my post isn't just static, but people who are interested can post their opinions, comments, etc, (even if they don't like that particular artist!).

    Another option is to take Michael up on his offer to host one or two MP3's by the obscure players, so that everyone can take a listen for themselves. Most of all, I want this forum to be interactive.
    Jack wrote:
    Something to think about, anyway; after a year or so we'd have a Biographical Dictionary of Gypsy Jazz.

    Sounds good to me!

    Best,

    Ted
  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    Hey Jack,


    What would be ideal (and this many be costly for some folks so I understand if there is apprehension on some peoples parts about taking part in this) would be for everyone to buy one CD (if they don't already have one) featuring the "artist of the week", that way, my post isn't just static, but people who are interested can post their opinions, comments, etc, (even if they don't like that particular artist!).

    Another option is to take Michael up on his offer to host one or two MP3's by the obscure players, so that everyone can take a listen for themselves. Most of all, I want this forum to be interactive.


    How about this.....give me a schedule of the artists of the week a month in advance and I can make sure I've got the CD in stock. And, I'll post a few sample MP3s to boot.


    'm
  • pallopennapallopenna Rhode IslandNew
    Michael,

    This sounds like a fantastic way for those of us who hunger for more information to get better aquainted with the music's history. Thanks to Jack for the idea, and to Ted for putting this together.

    -Paul
    Reject the null hypothesis.
  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Well, it seems a plan, then-can't wait to see who's up first.

    Thanks, guys.
    Jack.
  • CalebFSUCalebFSU Tallahassee, FLModerator Made in USA Dell Arte Hommage
    yeah, Let me jump on and say that is a damn good idea.
    Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.
  • FopaFopa San FranciscoNew
    Surprised to not see Stochelo Rosenberg on your list. Would he fit in the 3rd or 4th generation?
    -fopa
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