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New Favino Website - The Real Deal

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  • djadamdjadam Boulder, CONew
    edited April 2006
    nwilkins wrote:
    Those who have not played a wide variety of gypsy guitars (from N America AND Europe) might want to do so before dismissing the opinions of those with much more experience.

    Surely I could have presented my thoughts more clearly, but there's no need to be patronizing. I was the first to admit my inexperience in testing various selmacs. Maybe it would help if I kept my points separate:

    1. I was absolutely knocked out by the Shelly Park guitar I played. I have no doubt that Favinos are special. I think Parks are special. But if Favinos are truly superior to Parks in an obvious way, I'll have to see it to believe it. That doesn't mean I don't respect the opinions of Ted and Scot.

    2. I felt the thread itself deserved a friendly jab for getting fetishist, even as I wipe the drool from the side of my own mouth. Again, challenging an opinion doesn't mean you don't respect it.

    -Those who
  • djadamdjadam Boulder, CONew
    nwilkins wrote:
    Favinos are essentially in a league of their own, and nothing else is going to sound like them. However, Favino copies (as opposed to Selmer copies) will generally have more bass response, a less nasally tone, and a lighter, more balanced sound. Although I have not played a Montmartre, I have an Aylward Favino copy which is lovely.

    I found this in another thread. Interesting that you've never played a Park Montmartre yet you can say that Favino is in a league of its own.

    Listen, you might even be correct for all I know, but that patronizing "those who..." crap was unnecessary.
  • scotscot Virtuoso
    A Favino is not a "fetish". It is a high quality guitar with many years of development, built by a thoughtful and skilled guitar builder. It's a guitar with a unique sound. Djadam - you admit that you have almost no experience with high quality gypsy jazz guitars. You have played exactly one high quality Selmer style guitar - I assume you have played several in the "Saga" class? Well, duh - of course a Park guitar sounds a lot better than those things. A Park is a nice luthier guitar and a Saga is a cheap guitar from a factory in China.

    If you think the "story" about guitarists going to Favino's workshop is just a story to jack up his reputation (and price) I don't know what to say about that, except to say that it isn't a "story". It's something that actually happened. You can't make a reputation on a "story".

    Modern luthier guitars of all types sound good - the craftsmanship and quality of modern luthier guitars is unmatched in the history of guitars. But as anyone with much experience with high quality acoustic guitars can tell you, it's a small percentage of relatively intangible things that distinguish a great guitar from a good one. It's not the obvious things.

    Some guitar makers - Olson, D'Aquisto, Monteleone, Collings, and yes Dupont and Favino - have demonstrated over the years that they can consistantly produce guitars that have the je ne sais quoi that elevates them above the rest. Maybe these things are not easily detected by players without a lot of experience. I don't play classical guitar, and in my hands a Ramirez sounds about the same as a student classical guitar. I can't make it "work". And we all remember how it was back in the punk rock days when many tragically hip "guitarists" rejected the conventional wisdom about guitars and played the cheapest ones around...

    BTW - in "Djangomania!" there is a guy playing a weird double-cutaway guitar with no wood in the cutaways and a deco-style diamond shaped soundhole. I read an article somewhere about these guitars but I can't remember where or who who the builder was - only that I think it is a guitar made in Germany. Can anyone here shed any light on this?

    Best
    Scot
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    Hey Scot,

    Ahh...nice to read this.
    scot wrote:
    If you think the "story" about guitarists going to Favino's workshop is just a story to jack up his reputation (and price) I don't know what to say about that, except to say that it isn't a "story". It's something that actually happened. You can't make a reputation on a "story".

    Exactly, and more to the point, when you have that talent base consistently buying your product, with each order they say "change this...augment that, I'm looking for this type of sound..." you get a product built on years of experience with years of input from the most legendary guitarists in this genre - who helped define that genre. Jacques mentions this in an interview on that site. Also, the design that everyone adores - the large body, etc, was Matelo Ferret's idea! What does this mean?! It's certainly not fetishism, it's definitely not hype; and you can be sure it's not bullshit, it's simply the way it is and that transcends dogma.

    Please, don't misunderstand me. I'm not disrespecting any other luthier out there, because I have played all the different luthiers' product and they all make great instruments. I'm certainly not saying that because one doesn't own this instrument that they are invalid. I'm stimply stating an well supported opinion. I've owned 6 Favinos, currently own one and am waiting on another. People constantly ask me "what guitar should I get?" and I tell them exactly what I wrote on the first post: "Favino". This product, for me, consistently stands out and with the pure talent of Jean-Pierre, they are simply the apex.

    Best,

    Ted
  • MichaelHorowitzMichaelHorowitz SeattleAdministrator
    I think a lot of the new lutheirs today are making great guitars...no doubt about that. My bandmate has a Park Avance which is really nice. And about half the price of a Favino, so that's great for folks who don't want to pay over 5k for a great guitar.

    I think all Ted and Scot are saying is that Favinos are recognized by the wider Gypsy jazz community as classic instruments. Over a 50+ year of evolution the Favino family learned to build guitars that suite the specific aesthetics of this genre. That's no meager task...and I think they should be recognized for it. It's worth noting that nearly every Luthier today builds a "Favino" model....for the reasons I just stated. Favinos guitars are important part of the lutherie history of Gypsy jazz. I think some of the makers today will eventually earn that status as well...it takes time.

    I don't think anyone is saying everything else is crap...there's so much good stuff to pick from now a days. I think it's a testimony to the brilliance of the Favino design that it still holds it's own among the top notch modern Lutheiers working today.

    'm
  • kimmokimmo Helsinki, Finland✭✭✭✭
    scot wrote:
    BTW - in "Djangomania!" there is a guy playing a weird double-cutaway guitar with no wood in the cutaways and a deco-style diamond shaped soundhole. I read an article somewhere about these guitars but I can't remember where or who who the builder was - only that I think it is a guitar made in Germany. Can anyone here shed any light on this?

    Hi Scot,

    I haven't seen Djangomania, but your description (except the Germany-part) sounds like the Julian Gomez-Ramirez Django is pictured with in an early pre-QHCF pic.

    Some info here:
    http://mediatheque.cite-musique.fr/Clie ... ID=0160278
  • Ted GottsegenTed Gottsegen Rowayton, CTModerator
    Hi Kimmo,
    kimmo wrote:
    scot wrote:
    BTW - in "Djangomania!" there is a guy playing a weird double-cutaway guitar with no wood in the cutaways and a deco-style diamond shaped soundhole. I read an article somewhere about these guitars but I can't remember where or who who the builder was - only that I think it is a guitar made in Germany. Can anyone here shed any light on this?

    Hi Scot,

    I haven't seen Djangomania, but your description (except the Germany-part) sounds like the Julian Gomez-Ramirez Django is pictured with in an early pre-QHCF pic.

    Some info here:
    http://mediatheque.cite-musique.fr/Clie ... ID=0160278

    Scot's question was actually related to searching out the name of the contemporary luthier that makes a version of this guitar (Scot has uncovered the very interesting history of this guitar). I think it's Doderer (sp?) or something like that.

    Best,

    Ted
  • scotscot Virtuoso
    No, I am quite familiar with the Gomez-Ramirez guitar - see my other posts on the subject. The guitar I am looking for info on had a double cutaway with no wood in the cutaways on the sides of the guitar - that's to say, you could look down into the guitar on either side of the neck joint. This was a very radical guitar design to say the least.

    There is a German guy named Henning Doderer who's been making an acoustic bass after the design of the Gomez-Ramirez for years now. I don't know if he makes a guitar too - it's not on his website.

    I don't think the design of the Gomez-Ramirez was all that odd back then. There was one like it from Germany for sale on ebay a couple of years ago. And the one Baro is holding in the family photo with Matelot is positively not the guitar in the museum.

    Best
    Scot
  • pallopennapallopenna Rhode IslandNew
    Well, this thread has basically made me envy those of you who have (or have had) the opportunity to play Favinos. Or even hear one live. Rhode Island is definately not the center of the GJ universe. Hopefully, someone will bring one to Django in June!

    -Paul
    Reject the null hypothesis.
  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Hey Paul,

    You might have heard one last year-Scot brought his up (w/the black pickguard). What a beauty! There was another one floating around too; I want to say the owner was Larry Urbon...

    Best,
    Jack.
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