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pcalia davegross GypsyBassGuitar Sultan_of_Swing

nolan book minor swing

blindjimmyblindjimmy phoenix,az✭✭✭✭
edited February 2006 in Gypsy Jazz 101 Posts: 119
hi everyone. in nolans book, the am6 has an f#:

x
x
5
4
x
5
which seems to clash with the f in the am scale, any ideas?
thank you
shut up and play your guitar

Comments

  • JackJack western Massachusetts✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,911
    I had a teacher once who was really strict about matching chords to scales-he'd tell you to try using A dorian (same as A minor but with the natural sixth). I'd say, if you want to work the F# into it, concentrate on learning the related (i.e., Am6) arpeggios, but don't feel like every note has to be a chord tone.

    If you like the Nolan book, you could also check out his Licks book where he gives some examples of what you could play over the changes. It's worth mentioning that he plays an F over the Am6. And since you're going to Dm, it doesn't sound that out of place, especially uptempo.

    One other thing-try to expand the voicings you find in the Nolan books; he keeps them very basic so they're easy to pick up, but in reality you'll find those 3-note voicings aren't used that often. Some fuller (or just different) Am6 voicings might include:

    -5---------
    -5---------
    -5---------
    -4---------
    ----------
    -5---------

    -----------
    -7---------ring
    -5---------index
    -7---------mid finger
    -7---------mid finger
    -5---------thumb

    ----------
    -10---------
    -9---------
    -10---------
    -9---------
    ----------

    (Also look in the Repertoire Forum for more ideas...)

    Hope this helps,
    Jack.
  • nwilkinsnwilkins New
    Posts: 431
    an Am6 chord has the root, flatted third, 5th and 6th note of the A major scale. Or the root, 3rd, 5th and sixth notes of the A melodic minor scale. I think you must be confused - it would be worth getting a book to learn how chords are made.

    ie if you were to voice an Am chord with the b6 (f) it would not be an Am6 chord, and would sound quite dissonant because of the b6/#5
  • nwilkinsnwilkins New
    Posts: 431
    maybe I could post something a little more helpful:

    when you see a chord name, that name is generally created using the major scale of its root.

    so for a C major chord you have root (c) 3rd (e) and 5th (g) of c major scale

    C minor: root (c) b3rd (eb) and 5th (g) of c major

    for a major or minor 6th just add the 6th of c major to either chord.

    for a major or minor 9th add the 9th of c major, etc. etc.

    as far as improvising over a min6th, in Gypsy jazz, improvising is mostly based on arpeggios, so an Am6 would use an Am6 arpeggio and no clashing would occur. As Jack noted, F natural can be used as a passing note or to add tension or interest to a line.

    If you were going to improvise on Am6 using scales you would normally use A melodic minor or A dorian, both of which have F#

    The natural minor scale (also known as Aeolian mode) is very rarely used in improvising, specifically because of the lowered 6th.
  • CampusfiveCampusfive Los Angeles, CA✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 98
    In pre-bop jazz harmony, pretty much any minor chord is voiced as a minor6th (unless it is part of a ii-V). Like wise, most major chords are voiced as 6ths (NOT maj7ths). Those are just the harmonic conventions of the genre.

    As far as the "clash", it doesn't really matter. I use harmonic minor stuff over the Am6 all the time. It makes plenty of sense melodically, even if doesn't harmonically.

    Another thought: Many modern jazz players focus on playing scales over every different chord, as though each chord has nothing to do with the others. Don't forget to think melodically!! Minor Swing is entirely in the key of Am - it's not like the Am,Dm, and E7 are unrelated.

    Also, don't forget to try and cram in "wrong" notes. Django played notes that didn't quite fit all the time, and that is part of the magic.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,048
    nwilkins wrote:
    maybe I could post something a little more helpful:

    when you see a chord name, that name is generally created using the major scale of its root.
    .

    not to be a theory jerk or anything but the name of achord is actually derived from the mixolydian scale

    ie G7: 1 3 5 b7

    unless you meant the formula itself in which case thou art correct sir nick
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,048
    Campusfive wrote:

    Also, don't forget to try and cram in "wrong" notes. Django played notes that didn't quite fit all the time, and that is part of the magic.

    and the only way to do that (Besides having someone knowledgeable show you it) is to listen to the recordings and figuring out a few of those phrases....

    django would for example often play a C# on the E7 chord which "Clashes" with the minor tonality.... (minor swing 47, 49 for example)

    he would also plug in C# on Dm chords... (minor swing 49)

    stochelo would often play F7 over E7 as well (and quickly resolve it to E7 eventually) ... check out his solo on minor swing from the live 92 CD, he does it all over the place

    over the E7 to Am, sometimes i like to play G7 going to Cmaj7 in my solo, it creates an interesting tension
  • blindjimmyblindjimmy phoenix,az✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 119
    thanks everyone, you've cleared up an old misconception i've had. my problem was that i had been figureing those chords built on the a har min scale, due to the g#. if i understand correctly, any min 6 chord will have a natural 6, not a flat 6, and chord names are assigned as if created from the major scales. also , jack, that voicing for the min6 chord using the old min7b5 shape on the inside strings is a neat little sub that i found years ago by accident, without analyzing, i noticed that playing that shape with the root on top over any minor chord sounded very cool, and a real simple way to play 'fake jazz' with the blues rocker dudes. i appreciate
    the help.
    shut up and play your guitar
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