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Stochelo phrase from "Shine"

AmundLauritzenAmundLauritzen ✭✭✭✭
edited April 2013 in Licks and Patterns Posts: 236
I've learned Stochelos solo on "That's why they call me shine" from The Rosenberg Trios free mini album. I'm in the process of tabbing out the whole solo, which will take some time.
But for now I'd like to share a lick from the solo. Stochelo plays this over F6, F#dim, C6, A7, D7, G7, C6.

I've added pick directions that adhere to the general guidelines of the Dutch style. Of course, I can't guarantee that Stochelo used that exact picking pattern but it should be pretty close.

I chose this lick because it perfectly outlines those chords, it contains the essence of what Dutch players usually play on those chords and of course because it sounds so great!

I hope my contribution is appreciated. And if anyone has more licks for this progression they have transcribed, feel free to share them in this thread.
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Comments

  • HemertHemert Prodigy
    Posts: 263
    Nice Amund! I do think - knowing Stochelo's picking style - that the A and G# - in bar 4 are slurred (pull-off). I do not have the recording but I have never seem him do otherwise.

    Great to see an example of Stochelo really outlining the dim chord. He usually sticks to playing IV Moll Dur in those spots (F minor in this case) as you know!
  • BonesBones Moderator
    edited April 2013 Posts: 2,707
    Wow, thanks Amund!

    Hemert, I saw the discussion about Moll dur in the forum section of the RA. Pretty interesting.
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 2,707
    On a similar topic, here are some phrases that I transcribed from Bireli's version of Hungaria. That grille is slightly different but it's the same challenge to play over the changes.
  • AmundLauritzenAmundLauritzen ✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 236
    Thanks Bones! There is a small difference though. In "Shine" and "Them There Eyes" the accompaniment plays the diminished chord, while in "Hungaria" and "All of Me" the IV-minor is played. But in most cases, the vocabulary can be interchanged because both diminished and IV-minor lead well into the next chord. Strong movement can break rules. But don't take my word for it, always try out the lick and listen. Each time I do that I am reaffirmed that the rules are very fluid and the ear is the final judge.

    Also Christiaan you are absolutely right about the slur. That's how I play the phrase too. I don't know why I notated it with picking for that part. Tabbing late at night can make you do mistakes like that.

    So yeah, keep what Christiaan said in mind when learning the phrase. The phrase starts at 00:47 in the song. The "Free as the wind" album can be downloaded for free from The Rosenberg Trios official website.
    I'll probably update the tab with the slur, but until then just listen to Stochelo playing the phrase to identify the slur. By the way it helps a lot to put the MP3 into "Transcribe" or similar software and slow it down to about 35% because the Trio plays this tune inhumanly fast. I had no chance learning this without slowing down, just to make that clear.

    Anyway I'm glad that my contribution is appreciated and I hope that before too long I'll be done transcribing the whole thing tso I can share it with you guys. Keep on pickin'!
    -Amund
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,040
    the funny thing about the IV #IV diminished progression is that many of the Dutch players, not just Stochelo, often play IVm on it at faster speeds, but when the song is a bit slower , they do play the diminished chord... kinda weird, but it works.

    Of course, I haven't documented every instance of this happening, but just from casually listening and observing, i've found that to be true.
  • HemertHemert Prodigy
    Posts: 263
    dennis wrote:
    the funny thing about the IV #IV diminished progression is that many of the Dutch players, not just Stochelo, often play IVm on it at faster speeds, but when the song is a bit slower , they do play the diminished chord... kinda weird, but it works.

    Of course, I haven't documented every instance of this happening, but just from casually listening and observing, i've found that to be true.
    Definitely true!

    For those who wonder why it works: it works because both the F#dim and F- have the same function in C (sub dominants). One is a #IV and the other IVmd and both have the root of the tonic in the chord.

    One big difference though is the solution: F#dim wants to resolve to I6/4 (and should resolve to I6/4!!) and F- can resolve to a root position I chord or possibly I6 depending on the melody (so not in "All of Me" with the maj. 7th in the melody). Sadly many bass players do not resolve the F#dim to I6/4 and just play a "C". I tend to cringe a little when that happens, my ears really want to hear the right solution. It sounds so much better!
  • AmundLauritzenAmundLauritzen ✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 236
    I really appreciate the input from accomplished players as Christiaan and Denis. They are both spot in their observations. Take what you've gotten from me in this thread as from someone who is in the process of learning. I share what I discover, but I am of course open to corrections. I love this music so much and spend most of my time learning it. At this point there is bound to be mistakes. But this community of GJ enthusiasts reflects just that: everyone has the desire to learn from each other. In my final transcription I work towards the greatest possible accuracy on my part. Hopefully I'll get there before too long. There are some parts where Stochelo is phrasing over the barline that is hard to notate. Onwards... :D
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 2,707
    Hi Christiaan,

    Sorry for my ignorance what is 16/4?

    Thanks
  • HemertHemert Prodigy
    Posts: 263
    It's the way you describe harmony in functional analysis. Roman numeral "I" means "tonic", in the key of C that would be the C chord itself. 6/4 indicates the second inversion, so C/G in this case . 6 would be the first inversion (C/E).

    Functional analysis is not very practical if you have to play something prima vista but it is very useful in studying chord formulas in a more analytical way. If I write Eb: I [V] IV #IV I6/4 [V] II V I that would translate to Eb Eb7 Ab Adim Eb/Bb C7 F-7 Bb7 Eb. It is exactly the same but with the chords I'm thinking about notes and with numerals I'm thinking (and looking at) functions or tension and release within harmony (tonics, subdominants and dominants).
  • AmundLauritzenAmundLauritzen ✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 236
    Because it takes time to notate the unison G's(listen to the record), I am going to upload individual licks I've hand picked from the solo that I think are very valuable to learn in the meantime until I can get that figured out. This lick is played over C6, G7, E7, Am(two bars for each chord) and contains many Stochelo-isms.
    I've tried to imagine how he would pick the phrase, and this time I have added suggested fingerings as well.
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