current rep

George Brock

When Django and Steph started to play, many of their tunes came from what we might call the pop idium. I know there is a reverence for what Django accomplished, but is there any reason not to up-date with many of current standards?

=={=}

George

Jack

Hi George,

I think if you look long enough, you'll find some of the more modern standards are played, though you're right to think the core remains tunes of the swing era. In part I think it's because those tunes just seem made to order for this, just as some of the modern stuff begs to played in a certain style. Before we get too far into this, though, I'm wondering what you have in mind as 'current standards'. Anything specific?

Best,
Jack.

Cuimean

From what I understand, this debate is alive and well in the general jazz community.

I think there are a couple issues to consider: What in today's pop idiom has enough melodic and harmonic content to justify playing it in a jazz setting? And how do you do it without turning it into a novelty?

I think some in the gypsy jazz world are branching out into territory that's been there all the time but has remained relatively unmined: chanson. The songs of Brassens and Gainsbourg have been played by folks like Rodolphe Raffalli, and they fit the style quite well. Pommes de ma Douche and Coin de Rue have played Trenet tunes. I'd personally like to hear more folks playing tunes by Boris Vian or Barbara, or even tunes by the chansonniers of today, like Benabar, Thomas Fersen, Jeanne Cherhal, or Alexis HK. The melodies are strong and the changes are interesting, so why not?

- Rod

djangology

i think if you could come up with a list of 100-200 modern standards and then formally say that they would apply to modern gypsy jazz, and then if you could get a large number of people to follow along with it, then you could possibly change the face of gypsy jazz in the modern world.

perhaps us, as a group in the US should differentiate ourselves from the other gypsy jazzers by creating a new standard list? the only problem is that I think it would help to have a guitar "master" to pave the way for us.

with the old tunes we have the benefit of one "master player" , namely Django, providing us with examples of how to play those tunes.

Josh Hegg

I think that there are allot of really good "new" tunes that have been written but I think the big difference is that they are so damn fast. It is head for us new guys to pick them up. The older tunes at least have a playable head and then we can fake it from there. I could be way off here but most of the new and original gypsy tunes are harder. As for other tunes that are not "gypsy" but could be played that way.. I do that all the time but hardly ever with others. Its fun to see what you can "convert"!

Cheers

Jack

Cuimean wrote:

I think there are a couple issues to consider: What in today's pop idiom has enough melodic and harmonic content to justify playing it in a jazz setting? And how do you do it without turning it into a novelty?

This is why I asked what George meant by 'current standards'. While what we consider standards of the Django era were indeed the pop songs of the day, the more modern standards, to me, are drawn from the jazz world (Giant Steps and the like) and not the Hit Parade. I think the Nolan Trio did a good job with 'And I Love Her', but hearing Stevie Wonder tunes Djangofied doesn't do much for me. And while I do like hearing people take on chanson, it doesn't seem to me that they're standards.

djangology wrote:

perhaps us, as a group in the US should differentiate ourselves from the other gypsy jazzers by creating a new standard list?

This again ties into the problem of 'what is a current standard'? When it was the pop music of the day, it was played because people expected to hear it-these were the hits, and everybody knew they had to play them to get the gigs. Once jazz as popular music began to fade, the question of what became a standard became much more a musician's decision, and the tunes they chose tended to be much more esoteric and idiosyncratic, probably because they gave musicians more to chew on. (This, I think, is part of what led to the increasing insularity of the jazz world-too much of the audience simply couldn't get a grasp on what was happening, or why they should be interested.) It also meant that something becoming a standard took much longer (still does). At any rate, the point here is that it's a process; we could easily come up with a list of 200 'standards' but it would by no means follow that stateside gypsy jazz players would pick them up; to me, a better idea would be to pick one modern jazz tune you really like, write out a chart, and bring it to jams. Start small.

Finally, I think we all owe a big debt (though it may seem incongruous) to Sinatra. For a long while many of these tunes wallowed in limbo once their Hit Parade days were over, and from what I've seen he was the one who really started thinking in terms of The Great American Songbook, delving back into older tunes, and updating them for his time. Thanks, Frank.

Thanks for the discussion, and let's keep it going!
Best,
Jack.

Cuimean

Sorry...that last post was from me.

Don't drink and post.

- Rod

Ando

Three good possibilities:

- Well You Needn't (Monk)
- Mr. P.C. (Coltrane)
- Syeeda's Song Flute (Coltrane)

I realize they aren't popular with fans of N'Sync, Aguilera, Usher, or Shania.

Not that there's *ahem* anything wrong with Shania Twain...

Cheers,
Ando

George Brock

It's always hard to list your top twenty but if you listen you will hear them.
Isn't she lovely by stevie wonder jumps out for me without even thinking about it. I was taking coltrane et al for granted but if you go there you have Invitation, Green Dolphin Street, Angel Eyes, In your own sweet way,the girl from ipanema,500 miles high,epistrophy, don't get around much anymore, chelsea bridge

back to today:
It just depends on which direction you are headed - repeating what we already know or open to the possibilities. There are alway going to be audiences wanting to hear Djaango's ideas; it would seem to be our responsibility to keep it relevant to today's listener.

tryinging to predict who that listener might be is a whole different kettle of fish
=={=}
George

nwilkins

On Green Dolphin St was featured on The Rosenberg Trio's first CD I believe. That CD also featured There will Never be Another You, and one of their other CDs features the tune Bebop. Tunes like Move, Cherokee and Night in Tunisia have also been done successfully in this style, and Well You Needn't works really well In short, most jazz standards (even "modern" ones) will work fine if approached in the right way. The tricky part is trying to adopt contemporary pop tunes - in Django's day these were generally well-written with good harmony instead of the derivative harmonically stagnant song style that is popular with most people nowadays.

CalebFSU

Ando good call on Mr. PC. What about Blue Train I did that with another guitar player as a gypsy tune and it worked out pretty good. Also Tenor Madness I never really thought of this tune untill tonight my ensemble at school played and we kept getting faster and faster with each chorus (as an excercise) I can honestly say that tune is awesome. How about Four on Six or other tunes that are standards for guitarists (if that makes any sense).